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1812 Capped Bust Half Dollar Grading Opinions Wanted For New Member Please

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BH1964's Avatar
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10982 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2016  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Assuming there's no rubs, and the tip of the cap is shaky, then it should make MS63 with a shot at 64. If NGC saw rubs then it's a very strong AU58. Coins with this solid a strike and that level of eye appeal usually grade MS62 even with light rubs.
ANA #R3154474
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
United States
4337 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2016  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


I am going to say MS63 as well.

I am curious as to why those are not rim dings on the reverse?
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Saruma's Avatar
United States
968 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2016  8:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Saruma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That coin has a lettered edge and he said in his post that the lettering went over the edge. So it happened during the minting process not as later damage.

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Coinman1838o's Avatar
United States
8 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2016  10:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinman1838o to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ John1 I will give my opinion of the grade when I reveal NGC's grade.
@ Imthealphaomega I hope you find a full time teaching position very soon! The hiring season is full blast right now!
@ BH1964 Thanks for the input and bringing up the tip of the cap! I checked the tip of the cap (under a single incandescent light bulb) with the naked eye, a 3x loupe, and then with a 10x loupe and found no sign of wear with no color change or break in the luster so I'm certain that there wasn't any rub there (although it could be construed that way from the picture!)
@ Everyone Thank you all very much for your opinions! I think I'll wait another couple of days to see if anyone else posts and then I'll reveal the NGC grade and my opinion of the grade. Have a great night everyone!
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2016  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see very little luster. This is one I'd like to evaluate in hand. Without strong luster (not saying it isn't there; I just can't see it), the highest I'd technically go is AU-58. But since the TPGs have decided to ruin the coin market by doing market grades, I'll guess they gave MS-63.
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Joseph7420's Avatar
Canada
11922 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2016  11:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joseph7420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would think MS-64.
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Jaobler's Avatar
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6396 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2016  11:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see traces of luster between stars and letters and in the recesses of the hair and feathers. Luster appears absent in the fields. Strike is pretty solid with well-formed stars. The eagle's talons are a little blunt. I see flatness on the top of the cap and on the high points of the drapery that I would presume is slight wear. The reverse rim issue looks like damage although the OP's explanation for an as-minted origin seems reasonable.

Based on the images I would have pegged this as AU-58. If cartwheel luster is intact across the surfaces then MS-63 seems possible. Either way it's a beautiful coin, congrats!

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MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
United States
4409 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2016  2:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-63
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Fayette1800's Avatar
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1096 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2016  10:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fayette1800 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will go AU 58. We are ready for the reveal.
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52Raymo's Avatar
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8521 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2016  12:39 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A real beauty. I'll go 63
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Coinman1838o's Avatar
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8 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2016  9:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinman1838o to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Time to reveal NGC's grade.



1812-Capped-Bust-Half-Dollar-Grading-Opinions-Wanted-For-New-Member-Please

Now for my opinion of the grade (I'll try to be as brief as possible). I would give this coin a MS65 based on the ANA grading standards 7th edition (one of the many coin books in my library!) for the following reasons. After carefully looking at the surfaces under a 10x loupe there is absolutely no trace of wear on this coin and no color change either which would indicate wear.
For mint state coins there are four aspects used (contact marks, hairlines, luster, and eye appeal) in grading coins.
Contact Marks- There are almost no contact marks on the coin except for a tiny one on the nose and a tiny one on the chin. There is a small scuff mark (dark colored but no metal displacement) in the field to the direct left of Liberty's chin and a smaller scuff mark on her throat (dark color but no metal displacement). On the reverse there is a small scuff mark in the vertical shield lines with no other contact marks visible at 10x magnification. As per the ANA grading guidelines contact marks would be between 66 and 67 so I'll go with a 66 for contact marks.
Hairlines- Only under 10x magnification there is only one very small vertical hairline visible on Liberty's cheek so I would give the hairlines grade as 67 per the ANA grading guidelines.
Eye Appeal- I searched through numerous examples online ( ebay and dealer websites) since I needed a Capped Bust half dollar and I choose this one based on the overall eye appeal. Based on the descriptions of the posters and my own observations of numerous coins I would give this coin a 67 (Exceptional) for eye appeal but I'll be conservative and give it a 66 (Above Average) as per ANA guidelines.
Luster- This will be the lowest grade on this coin. The coin has deep, even, silver grey toning. It does have cartwheel luster but is it is stronger along the periphery of the coin (stars and date on obverse and the legends on the reverse) and more subdued in the fields (but still present) for both the obverse and reverse. I would give luster grade between 63-64 but I'll go with 63 to be conservative.
Also, although strike is not one of the four categories it is given in the grade for 65 and 67 and so I would put it somewhere from 65 (high quality of strike) to 67 (normal strike for date and mint.
So the four grades are 66,67,66, and 63. When averaged together the number is 65.5 so therefore my grade of 65. Also, after looking at many samples grading 65 from the HA website this coin would easily fit in with the other MS65 examples. Now the question I would have is what percentage does each of the four grading categories have (25% each or is one category weighted more heavily than the others?) if using ANA grading standards. Does PCGS and NGC even use the ANA standards or do they grade based on the price a coin would realize? Anyhow, I paid a little less than MS62 money for this coin so I can't really complain about the assigned grade but I think a resubmission would yield positive results (although I plan on keeping this coin for a long time so reselling is not my main motivation at this time, it's just I think the coin merits a higher grade than MS62). Comments/questions are welcomed and encouraged! Thank you all very much for your opinions and your time in reading my post!
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BH1964's Avatar
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 Posted 07/16/2016  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
For mint state coins there are four aspects used (contact marks, hairlines, luster, and eye appeal) in grading coins.


Where did you get this info? Sounds more like Proof coin criteria to me.

I use surface preservation as 50% of the grade. Then eye appeal, luster & strike as the other 50%.

It's very rare for a TPG to miss a grade as badly as you describe. A 62 grade here is indicative of a market graded slider with light rubs (not wear) and poor luster. You could send it to NGC again or CAC to see if they Gold sticker it.

This is a 5 figure coin in 65. The last PCGS 64 sold for ~$6,000 last year. http://coins.ha.com/itm/bust-half-d...Lot=1x=0&y=0

I believe your coin could grade 63 on a given day. It does not look like a 65 in your images.
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Edited by BH1964
07/16/2016 11:48 pm
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paralyse's Avatar
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12057 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2016  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is accurately graded at MS-62. Wear grade is wear grade. The rest is just net grading.

As has been mentioned, if you feel strongly that the coin is undergraded, CAC is your first stop, especially if other dealers look at the coin & agree with you. A green bean (or even better, gold bean) from CAC would be great, but CAC simply does not gold bean most coins in modern generation holders, especially not 19th century and older.

Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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Coinman1838o's Avatar
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8 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2016  12:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinman1838o to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@BH1964 The information you asked about is from the American Numismatic Association Grading Standards for United States coins 7th Edition. It is on page 25 under the heading "Official ANA Grading Terminology: Mint State Coins" They give detail over each of the four areas and then list each grade from MS-70 to MS-60 including a general description and then commentary on each of the four areas (contact marks, hairlines, luster, eye appeal). Now I am unsure of how closely NGC and PCGS follows those standards or whether they use other criteria as well and how that criteria is weighed in determining the final grade.
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 07/17/2016  12:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS/NGC general standards: waer grade, surfaces (contact, abrasions, marks) eye appeal (luster, toning) and strike sharpness
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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