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Never Underestimate The Power Of Federal Reserve

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TroyWhite's Avatar
United States
112 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2017  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TroyWhite to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Terry can you give us some examples of 8% div yield preferred stocks. Are they Reits? My problem with them is if they cut the dividend it is easy to lose 20% in a day. I don't like to reach for yield in a low interest rate environment. The thing is it seems like it could be time to start thinking about taking a bit off the table with stocks. The question is where to rotate now?
If Leon is correct and the metals are going to break here perhaps some miners start looking interesting?
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fistfulladirt's Avatar
United States
4333 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2017  04:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fistfulladirt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a 401K and vested pension.
Faith in my PM's only - "if you don't hold it, you don't own it'"
When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
Dirt fishing since '72
Valued Member
kg5's Avatar
Australia
491 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2017  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kg5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Of all the things to invest in to make a $ why would you choose straight PM's?
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United States
1450 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2017  3:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Targa Resources Partners has a preferred stock I own that has perpetual yield of 9%. They are less risky than common stock and more risky than treasury bonds. If you buy $50,000 of the preferred stock you will get $4500 a year in dividends which are taxed at the 20% rate which is much less than tax on interest or on regular earned income. These things do have special risks but even if the company were to go broke you will get something back. Most of the big banks sell preferred stock which often has a yield of 6% to 7% and insurance companies sell preferred stock. The government will not allow these entities to go broke. You start to see why the 1% has such a huge advantage over they guy who earns his money and does not invest. Everything favors invested money as opposed to earned money.
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2017  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You start to see why the 1% has such a huge advantage over they guy who earns his money and does not invest. Everything favors invested money as opposed to earned money.


This is an important point. The 1% run Washington D.C. and basically own the U.S. Congress and the U.S. media. They will keep the game running as long as possible through favorable legislation and propaganda and it will certainly outlive most of us. Last year's election will do very little to "change the system" which is at the same time both broken and corrupt but also with the strength of the USD and U.S economy behind it.
ANA #R3154474
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2017  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The government will not allow these entities to go broke


This is why the US economy is in such terrible shape.
This makes the concept of free enterprise look like a joke and corruption is rampant in the US.
Valued Member
TroyWhite's Avatar
United States
112 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2017  08:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TroyWhite to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Terry any company paying 9% dividends in a our low interest rate environment probably
has a bit of risk... I think Vanguard has a low cost preferred stock mutual fund to
lessen the risk.
Still, I remember preferred stocks got destroyed in 2008, 2009 etc. There was nowhere
to hide. Then as the recession took hold many had to cut those dividends and they fell
more. The ones that did not go out of business were once in a lifetime buys. But, who was
going to buy then when it seemed as if our whole economy was collapsing?
Markets seem phony and just about as overvalued now as they were then...
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United States
1450 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2017  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Preferred stocks can be recalled and dividends can be suspended, but if the company survives you will be reimbursed. The thing is that a preferred stock is like a bond, but can be recalled unlike say a 30 year treasury bond yielding 3%. If your preferred stock drops below par value they are liquid and can be sold. If you either buy a preferred ETF or fund and price starts to take a hit sell them. If you pick wisely like preferred stock for Wells Fargo or Goldman Sachs you know they are too big to fail and they own the government anyway. A run of the mill preferred bank stock is yielding 6% at least. I have been counting dividends for years. The reason you don't see much about preferred stocks is that they are not sexy. They are income stocks like utilities, but safer than those things.

Troy
I get where you are coming from since I own some oil stocks which had very good dividends in 2014 and got killed and dividends were cut but they were just common stock. What I did learn is that nobody can predict these things and if you are not invested you can't make money. I got killed in 2009 with my stocks, but I hung in there and now they have tripled in value. PM's are just so volatile you could stack them for thirty years and then they could triple in a year and that is when to sell them.
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aghawk's Avatar
Canada
343 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2017  9:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aghawk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think a lot of stackers are waiting and willing to wait for the time when PM's skyrocket. What often doesn't get talked about is if/when that happens quite likely a number of other financial issues will be at the forefront which may offset the benefits of owning PM's. Predicting when and what is going to happen is impossible. Personally, I am done with the stock market after 2009 - never again.
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TroyWhite's Avatar
United States
112 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2017  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TroyWhite to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know many who vow to never to return to the stock market. It would be have been
helpful if the rule of law was actually followed and the too big to fail
were allowed repercussions for bad investments like the rest of us instead of receiving promotions and bonuses for failure.
Now many markets again seem to be in huge bubbles inflated by the biggest debt bubble ever.
It just seems like a good idea to stack something real.
The fun part is we get to buy these wonderful coins that are pieces of history. They
could help to see us through in the event of bad times...
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fistfulladirt's Avatar
United States
4333 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2017  03:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fistfulladirt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Personally, I don't believe PM's will ever be 'allowed' to skyrocket, even if the current money system tanks.
When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
Dirt fishing since '72
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2017  03:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Personally, I don't believe PM's will ever be 'allowed' to skyrocket, even if the current money system tanks.


IF the current Fiat money tanks or collapses the ONLY PM's that will be affected will be the "Paper" holdings, These will probably simply "Vanish"
The Physical PM's will be valued by supply and demand and the government will be powerless to change this and this is what ALL governments are terrified of
Edited by trout1105
01/30/2017 04:00 am
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beem's Avatar
United States
570 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2017  09:38 am  Show Profile   Check beem's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add beem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Personally, I don't believe PM's will ever be 'allowed' to skyrocket, even if the current money system tanks.


They did from 2000 to 2011.
Edited by beem
01/30/2017 09:38 am
Valued Member
TroyWhite's Avatar
United States
112 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2017  10:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TroyWhite to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I notice that on a day like today with nearly everything in the red
metals are green. They seem to have a non-correlation to stocks and bonds in uncertain
times.
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fistfulladirt's Avatar
United States
4333 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2017  12:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fistfulladirt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
They did from 2000 to 2011.
If one considers it took over 30 years from the highs in '80 to the same highs in 2011, I suppose you could call that 'skyrocketing'. What is that, like a 3% increase considering inflation?
When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
Dirt fishing since '72
Edited by fistfulladirt
01/30/2017 12:15 pm
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