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 Replies: 36 / Views: 3,814 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Who's brave enough?   |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11894 Posts |
au details damaged scratched
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3479 Posts |
I know I'm jumping the gun before giving all of you an opportunity to chime in, but I think it's best to not waste your time. This coin is graded au-50 by PCGS with a CAC approval. It is being auctioned off in the ANA show. https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-dol...ption-071515What am I missing? How is it possible for this coin to get CAC approval? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
It certainly looks like a problematic coin in the images. It must look better in-hand.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11894 Posts |
I suppose the "buy the coin, not the holder" cliche is again confirmed. Coins that are overgraded tend to bring in more money, so there will always be an incentive to overgrade coins. The only way to stop it is to reject overgraded coins, but that is more difficult when people choose to use TPG grades as a substitute for common sense. This one seems to lie outside the bounds of the range of grades that reasonable people grading this coin could be in disagreement over. We live in a free country and anyone can have an opinion. If you disagree with the TPG and the pricing, just don't buy the coin. It is a shame that it will leave a trail of disillusioned buyers, hurting our hobby. But maybe these buyers will learn a tough, needed lesson which is "learn to grade for yourself," which is a lesson that everyone with any time in our hobby has had to learn. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36770 Posts |
I can see AU-50, the pass on the scratches is a little hard to swallow. Always a crap shoot with TPG's, their grading is all over the place. CAC....not sure what they were thinking either. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Thanks for chiming in all! It's not only the scratches but what I find even more troubling is that this coin has obviously been cleaned. This is NOT what an original au-50 Seated dollar looks like. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7621 Posts |
The scratches in the obverse field and all over the shield absolutely kill this coin. The purple brown spot at 12 o'clock on the reverse is a sure sign of an improper riinse following a dip in some kinda cleaning solution.
You, me or any other commoner that sends this coin in will get the "details" grade that the coin deserves.
Big auction company that sends this coin in will get the grade they want based on what they think their clientele will find acceptable and pay for.
Anyone that thinks "grading is anonymous" is living in a fantasy dream world that disappeared a long time ago. It is all about money.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Always with the conspiracy theories, Westernsky. Part of me wants to believe you.
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
If westernsky is incorrect, then I have nothing.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
There are two "scratches" on the reverse that are actually die cracks, but there are enough real scratches on both the obverse and reverse to nearly touch the graffiti ticket. If I hadn't been told I'd have said AU, details, scratched. If we search a large number of coins graded by either NGC or PCGS we will certainly all find some photos of coins that we disagree with. Going to the extreme of crediting some of this disagreement being the result of TPG preference for given submitters is absurd. If you follow the hundreds of topics presented here every month where photos are provided and someone asks the opinions on the grades you know that it is rare for everyone to agree on a grade based only on photos. Are we participating in some preferential grade opinion for our friends? Of course not. To a large extent it depends on the familiarity with certain types and even with particular dates and mints within that type. For me to say, from a photo only, that I know better than professional graders with the coin in their hand is often presumptuous. Yes, TPG make mistakes and you can always find them if you look hard enough. But ill still rely on them for a professional opinion after I've determined that the stated grade meets my own standards. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Well said as usual.
AU details, scratched.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1499 Posts |
Quote:I suppose the "buy the coin, not the holder" cliche is again confirmed. Coins that are overgraded tend to bring in more money, so there will always be an incentive to overgrade coins. The only way to stop it is to reject overgraded coins, but that is more difficult when people choose to use TPG grades as a substitute for common sense. This one seems to lie outside the bounds of the range of grades that reasonable people grading this coin could be in disagreement over. We live in a free country and anyone can have an opinion. If you disagree with the TPG and the pricing, just don't buy the coin. It is a shame that it will leave a trail of disillusioned buyers, hurting our hobby. But maybe these buyers will learn a tough, needed lesson which is "learn to grade for yourself," which is a lesson that everyone with any time in our hobby has had to learn. This is an interesting post. A few months ago you jumped on me for not being supportive enough of the Third Party Grading companies and CAC. It was for that reason that I finally decided to ignore you. Now it seems like you have seen the light. I am not against third party graders or CAC, but we as coin grading consumers need to keep their feet to fire and push them to uphold their standards. We cannot be like sheep and follow them blindly because of misplaced loyalties or far worse, party line politics because we have a large investments in their graded coins to maintain. False market perceptions based upon their "grading perfection" will do us no good in the long run. There are dealers who will defend CAC to the hilt because they have a vested financial interest in doing so. I've done battle with those people on PCGS boards and have taken a lot of heat for it. I don't care about the heat. When collectors put CAC on pedestal and claim the man who runs it is "the greatest grader in the history of numismtics to whom all must bow in awe ... no one is qualified to question his opinions," there is a big problem. CAC as done a lot of good, but it has made more than a few mistakes too. Those who like CAC should acknowldege that and push the company to do better when it makes mistakes. As for the present coin, it has been improperly cleaned and has hairlines all over it. The coin should not have received a straight grade, let alone a CAC endorsement. Edited by billjones
07/24/2017 08:14 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Taiwan
606 Posts |
This coin was previously graded by ANACS as an AU Details Net AU 50 Cleaned and sold by Heritage in
2010 prior to being slabbed by PCGS and beaned.
Edited by Everest
07/24/2017 08:33 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
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Replies: 36 / Views: 3,814 |
Posted 07/23/2017 09:10 am
