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 Replies: 79 / Views: 12,021 |
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Valued Member
 United States
414 Posts |
@BigSilver
I conceded that this was a gamble; no doubt about that. Time will tell whether or not it was a good one. Here is what I knew before getting into this:
1. I've dealt with dozens of houses across the world and many just do not bother to certify coins. There are exceptions where some will only cell certified coins. Take your pick as to the whys but I figure many of them just have too much churn (this particular house generally auctions 2 to 3 thousand coins every quarter) and do not have sufficient time or they just don't care too much; they get their cut and that's it.
2. This particular house is large and very reputable and I have purchased from them in the past, granted it was world coins.
3. From what I know of world coins forgeries and some research on US coin forgeries, this coin seems to me at least to be authentic.
At any rate, I really do appreciate all the feedback. It will take about a few weeks but will definitely share the outcome of this saga.
Cheers!
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5394 Posts |
I have been a customer of DNW in London for years , you will never have a problem. Chris and Jim are absolutely top notch . The firm has a stellar reputation. These pieces sold but surprisingly the other early Dollars did not.
There were some pretty strong prices in the three day auction overall . That is to be expected what with Coinex in London every foreign coin dealer of note will be in Britain for the next two weeks.
Off next week myself . It should be interesting with Sterling now starting to climb back to pre Brexit Levels, against the US and Canadian dollars. 5 percent in 3 days against USD!
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Definitely not a coin to be buying raw. I'll just add this, US coin dealers and elite collectors aren't dumb. Sure there can be a great find from a foreign auction house every now and then, but they would be snatching everything up in sight if raw auctions like these really were the treasure trove of super cheap great deals that they appear to be they would have been purchasing from them in mass long ago. At the very least do yourself a favor and get things like that to PCGS as fast as possible if you insist on buying that way so you can find out sooner rather than a decade down the line
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
I would really love to see you showing this coin to us again in a few weeks, safely secure in an NGC capsule.
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Valued Member
United States
414 Posts |
@Pacificoin I really do like them. They get phenomenal lots from time to time. I have managed to pick up several gems from them - no issues thus far. Some of the other early dollar lots were not as attractive (to me at least) and from my perspective, were overpriced. And yes, the fx swing in the last couple of days sucked! @basebal21 As I mentioned before, I definitely will get this to a TPG the moment this coin reaches my hand. As for collectors/dealers snatching up deals - that's not entirely true (well maybe, because I am such a collector). Plenty phenomenal deals to be had. A couple of months back I picked up PCGS slabbed MS 70 2008-W burnished early release 50 gold buffalo for 1,600 and the same for the cameo proof for 2,300. One just needs to keep their eyes peeled. @moxking You have my word. Edited by cableguy815
09/15/2017 5:29 pm
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
I am cautiously optimistic on your behalf, and there is the further assurance that a house of this quality would be unlikely allow their reputation to be besmirched by allowing a lot they handled to be proven counterfeit without some action in the buyer's favor on their part. This was had for about a third of retail, perhaps better. Over the years I've had contact with a few posters who are doing quite well with US coinage in Europe, thank you very much. The scenario here is not at all difficult to imagine.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Looks real to me and a great example. Would I buy it raw? Not a chance. I don't need more headaches. Let us know how it comes back from the tpgs. I hope it works out.
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Pillar of the Community
861 Posts |
My guess.....XF details-repaired, the bar was removed through surface repair.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Tough call. While neither coin posted on Pg 1 jump out as fake, both don't smell right.
Best of luck and I hope to check back and find out more later.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
A classic case of needing to get this coin authenticated by having it slabbed.
Also, the authentication of the slab has to be proven as well. Can help to keep records of any coin submitted for slabbing. The technology for faking credit cards is easily transferable to the faking of slabs.
It is probably easier for most of us to authenticate a coin, (because of our collective numismatic knowledge), than to authenticate a slab.
My first love is ancient coins, an area of numismatics where fakes are very common. Just as well in this case, because by not being a specialist in U.S. silver dollars, I have no knowledge of the varieties of these.
With ancients, every coin is a variety.
Without the knowledge of silver dollar varieties, I have to consider this coin in isolation.
From the pictures, the detail of the hair appears to be a little 'mushy', and the patina seems to be a bit pasty.
This coin should be checked accurately for weight and diameter.
It would prove be very helpful to take it to a bullion dealer, who has a hand held XRF instrument, looking for the presence (or lack of) trace metals (not silver), when compared to a genuine example. Such a dealer may charge for his services in this regard.
Almost all of us here in the CCF are well aware that fakes of all dates of Flowing Hair silver dollars are very common.
Hence the need to authenticate every one of them, that has not yet been authenticated.
Due diligence is necessary in this case; big money involved here.
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Valued Member
United States
414 Posts |
Thank you all for the continued feedback. @g048406 That is my only concern that the surfaces were tinkered with in some manner. However, the coin is an attractive example (in my opinion) and at the price I paid, still a decent purchase - time will tell. @BH1964 I know all about coins not smelling right. Do elaborate please, what exactly seems off in your view. I'm very curious to understand your perspective, especially with respect to the Morgan. The early dollar I can understand, but the Morgan, in my eyes, seems like a very good example with no trace of the usual date/mintmark manipulation attempts. @sel_69l I never really cared for ancients, partly for the reasons you mentioned yourself. One of the things that draws me to coinage is the accuracy and precision of form, shape, strike, etc. For this reason, ancients and hammered coinage as a whole never did it for me. What do you mean by "Also, the authentication of the slab has to be proven as well"? Also, why take this to a dealer as opposed to a TPG? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8137 Posts |
 to CCF! I don't see anything wrong with the coin (I really like the even color), but I would be cautious after hearing the circumstances under which it's being sold. Does the auction house have a return policy? Will they take it back if it comes back fake after you submit it? |
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Valued Member
United States
414 Posts |
Thank you Coincollector. I haven't crossed that bridge with this particular house and am not overly concerned just simply based on the size and reputation of this particular house. I'm not sure if you're familiar with kunker, but if I was purchasing something from kunker, the same would hold true. As for their policy, they do have a policy in place for coins they dub "deliberate forgeries" (I've never really come across "accidental forgeries"). If it were to come to that, I'm sure something could be worked out. I'm a good customer and the reputational hit would be far more costly.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:Also, why take this to a dealer as opposed to a TPG? There's really no reason to do that. The PCGS or NGC will be much better suited to made a determination |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
There's really no reason to do that. The PCGS or NGC will be much better suited to made a determination
Dealers are generalists, and not always at the forefront of issue-specific counterfeit diagnosis even if they are otherwise capable and trustworthy. Doesn't mean there are none whose opinion can be definitive - one such is g048406, who has posted in this thread - but without prior knowledge as to qualification it's a bit of a crapshoot. Far better to default to a TPG opinion. The TPG's have a professional interest in both the coin being genuine - so a nice coin can appear in their slab - and catching it if it's not, to avoid their reputation being affected by letting a fake through. |
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Replies: 79 / Views: 12,021 |
First Page
Posted 09/15/2017 4:15 pm
