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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
Quote:
doubleeagle59.
I'm astonished by your comparisons - which catalogs/sites are you using for your values ?
Is ICCS a reputable grader ? Mainly actual selling prices. ICCS is Canada's leading grader of coins. |
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Valued Member
United States
302 Posts |
Kudos to Rob for an excellent job in summing up the situation!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
"take a look at all the overpriced Canadian variety coins available"
I accept your challenge to a duel, good sir.
The current market is tricky for sure. And Mr.Turner is absolutely correct on all counts.
I find the Victorian silver (mid to high grade) is doing decently well - not a lot of bargains to be had...even Newfoundland silver is doing quite well...not spectacularly well mind you, but perhaps a very mild overall uptrend in the last 7 years ?!
Victorian large cents are getting killed at the moment, except at the very highest grades...
For example...I just picked up a 1884 Obverse 1 PCGS VF30 for something like $80. A G6 used to sell for $80 a few years back...
This is paradise for the Victorian Large Cent variety BUYER...I would even say that the Victorian Silver variety buyer will get some decent bargains here and there...
These things do go in waves...but I must say I just dont subscribe to the "doom and gloom" theories...
I've been waiting years for this purported "flood" of unsearched collections to hit the market - it never came...and I'm not sure it ever will...
Edited by canadian-varieties
04/15/2018 03:36 am
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
Quote:
I've been waiting years for this purported "flood" of unsearched collections to hit the market - it never came...and I'm not sure it ever will... It won't. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
04/15/2018 03:58 am
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New Member
Canada
26 Posts |
All I am hearing, especially from doubleeagle59, is that it is time to buy!
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Moderator
 Canada
10459 Posts |
I pretty much concur with most of the comments. However, when PCGS Registry set material becomes available, all bets are usually off, because that stuff only usually becomes available when someone else decides to sell...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
No duel necessary. Several people have listed such coins.
Regarding any unsearched collections, who really knows? I used to think that not many pristine, red Vicky cents could possibly lurk out there in unknown collections. Along came Landon in 2014, followed by the Eastside Collection a year later. The pop reports for red Vicky's now look nothing like they did in 2014.
Edited by bosox
04/15/2018 4:32 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
The registry set material is interesting and falls into the exception I mentioned as the "usual exception of high end collectors competing for the best of the best". When you talk about the Victorian Cents with Varieties set, nobody, including me, had all the varieties in close to the highest known grades and unimpaired (so they could go into PCCS holders). A few people have most of them, but the scarcest and very best variety coins were/are spread out a bit, so inevitably completing the set means a few coins have to be purchased at higher prices. I feel fortunate in that during, the early 2000's and 2010's, when sellers were only seeking modest (or no) premiums for such coins, I spent a little extra and bought higher grade examples when they came up.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
The best example of a "PCGS Registry chase" or "high end collectors competing for the best of the best" that I can recall was the 1859 9/6 (9 over inverted 9) in PCGS AU58 that sold for $9400USD in 2015: https://coins.ha.com/itm/canada/wor...bnail-071515I had a PCGS AU50 that I bought for a few hundred dollars and even I found myself bidding $3600 USD for the AU58. To this date I think it holds the record for the highest $ sale of an AU Victorian Large Cent Variety (I'm not including the 1859 brass cents which are errors, not varieties) Given that PCGS is slowly expanding the Registry sets and the varieties that it will recognize, I think that will breathe some new life into the Canadian coin market.. Something else that will probably breathe new life into the Canadian coin market, will be the termination or retirement of ICCS. I actually believe that having top Canadian coins split between the internationally recognized PCGS and unrecognized ICCS is part of the problem, and one of the reasons why the Canadian coin Market is not as hot as some of the other international coin markets. I know it's controversial but there, I've said it. ICCS has to go for the Canadian coin market to thrive.  Edited by canadian-varieties
04/15/2018 4:39 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
I remember that one (January 2015). I think it sold so high because it was the highest graded example at the time. I was concerned that somebody paid too much money for that coin, thinking it was the finest known. The sale caused me to send my 64RB example into PCGS in March 2015. Since then Zonad has had his 63RB graded (first graded as 62RB, then re-graded). It will not shock me if another mint state example, or two, show up. When I bought my 1884 obverse 1, it was the finest graded by the TPG's (ICCS 62 Lustrous Brown, now PCGS 62BN). Since then a couple of 63's have appeared. Examples like this are many. I really think it could take another decade or so to tease most of the high grade varieties out of the woodwork. Time will tell. http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
Edited by bosox
04/15/2018 4:56 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
Quote:
I know it's controversial but there, I've said it.
ICCS has to go for the Canadian coin market to thrive. Interesting...... I never really thought of it, but could be very true. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
I think there are two primary reasons that ICCS continues:
1. It seems to me that Canadian dealers are the most important factor in the survival of ICCS. I think many dealers have a considerable amount of inventory in ICCS holders. If ICCS goes away, it risks devaluing that inventory.
2. As an American, this one is hard for me to judge, but I think ICCS still benefits from a certain amount of nationalistic spirit; i.e. Canadians like having a Canadian grading service.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
My take why ICCS continues is this:
1. Basically, they are the ONLY Canadian grading company readily available and affordable for the Canadian collector.
For most of the time period that grading companies have been around, ICCS has been the only company in Canada.
Although recently, there has been far too numerous examples of their grading superiority slipping, they are still considered numero uno in Canada.
Bear in mind too that a good many coin collectors are extremely dollar conscience and in this respect, ICCS has a huge advantage over their US counterparts, since ICCS's rates are very low in comparison to NGC and PCGS.
Lastly, when in the early days, PCGS and NGC graded Canadian coins, they were so far off the mark, that it was laughable. (I honestly can't recall how many times at auction viewings in the early 1990's that there was actual laughter from dealers who were inspecting Canadian coins graded by PCGS.
I can recall deeply toned 5c silvers that ICCS would grade AU, were getting ms64 grades at PCGS.
I once bought a PCGS 1934 ms64 10c coin at auction (it was deeply toned) that ICCS would not even grade au55 (luckily I could return it).
I think a lot of that information still lingers with us 'old timers' and because you can't teach an old dog new tricks, we still prefer and stay with ICCS.
Edited by doubleeagle59
04/15/2018 8:13 pm
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Moderator
Canada
10459 Posts |
I have no doubt ICCS will continue... rumours are abound that they have been looking for a buyer and new owner for the brand... If that happens (and I have a pretty good idea where it might end up), then it will improve considerably, probably with a consistent grader and served with a website, online population reports, and so on. I would not want to be the person where those file boxes are dropped off and having to enter all that metadata into a robust database...  "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Moderator
Canada
10459 Posts |
Quote:
...but I think ICCS still benefits from a certain amount of nationalistic spirit; i.e. Canadians like having a Canadian grading service. Not a chance!! I am investing a considerable sum of money to slowly convent my entire collection into PCGS holders. Since I am a PCGS Registry Set player, I think for upper end mint state coins, that is where it will benefit me the most in the long term. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Replies: 55 / Views: 11,971 |
First Page
Posted 04/14/2018 10:50 pm
