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How Far Back Can We Go? Fifth Edition! Ended At 1461 Waiting On 1460 C. E. (A. H. 864)

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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2019  05:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lithuania
Solidus 1627
SOLIDUS.M.D.LITU.1627
SOLIDUS MAGNI DUCATUS LITUANIA
solidus of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania
SIG.III.D.G REX.PO.M.D.L.
SIGISMUNDUS III DEI GRATIA REX POLONIA MAGNUS DUX LITUANIA
Sigismund III, by God's grace, King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania
(c) - 2 fish 1618-30 Kristupas Narvsevicius
Krzysztof_Naruszewicz
"Wadwicz coat of arms"
Mint: Vilnius
Reference: Kopicki 3475
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Edited by Petrus
07/20/2019 05:36 am
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34504 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2019  05:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@1c5

Quote:
TRANS ISULANIA = OVER IJSSEL


Yes, which I didn't expect when I was a kid and first got this coin (I was thinking it was from Transylvania!) It took a lot of manual searching in Krause to find it (no Interwebs at that point).

@petrus

Quote:
Could it not be that the flan was cut from a (square) bar?


Perhaps, but this is the only example of this coin being square that I have seen.
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 07/20/2019  06:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Here are three different coins from Poland 1627.

Nice! That szostak is very attractive. Mine is more worn as are many of these, but has special significance since it was picked up while visiting family in Poland 20 years ago.

So I will post more Lorraine testons. First Charles IV (Nancy mint), then his father, Francois (Badonvillers mint)
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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 Posted 07/20/2019  06:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Perhaps, but this is the only example of this coin being square that I have seen.

please ask Arie about it:
http://www.bonatiele.nl/FDETUK/fram...century.html
http://www.bonatiele.nl/
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 Posted 07/20/2019  06:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Tdziemia
So I will post more Lorraine testons. First Charles IV (Nancy mint), then his father, Francois (Badonvillers mint)

Veri nice coins!
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 07/20/2019  06:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you. It's been nice to see @t360 post some, too. I thought I might be the only one out here with these.
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 Posted 07/20/2019  07:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On those two lovely Sigismund III thalers of 1628:


Quote:
There are some noticeable differences in the obverse legend and portrait when compared to the example posted by @jgenn


I don't have this book and it is not yet in the Numista documentation, but it appears these varieties have been cataloged in Jan Dostych, Katalog Talarów Zygmunta III Wazy.

Both of these 1628 thalers have the polkozic symbol at 6:00 obv, which makes them, type Dostych28.3 (types 1 and 2 do not have this feature obv). jgenn's with POLO at 5:00 obv, and MAS (for Masovia) at the end of the obverse legend is variety Dostych 28.3.24.
I think @t360s with small crosses (instead of dots) between the words in the second half of the legend, is Dostych 28.3.22
Edited by tdziemia
07/20/2019 07:51 am
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 Posted 07/20/2019  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Charles IV, Duke of Lorraine

Teston

Nancy mint, roses in reverse legend
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

@tdziemia's example has crosses in the reverse legend
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 07/20/2019  12:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

As it turns out, there is even a third variety with dots as punctuation (the Numista photo has this type https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces33782.html). My reference for Lorraine is deSaulcy, who does not mention these varieties for 1627, though he does mention some for other dates.
Am curious if there is a reference with more detailed listing of these varieties for Lorraine Testons .. or if this is a book still to be written?

Edited by tdziemia
07/20/2019 1:44 pm
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 Posted 07/20/2019  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...a reference with more detailed listing of these variations?


Unfortunately, I don't know of any. Does deSaulcy list varieties for Antoine (1508-1544)?
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 Posted 07/20/2019  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1627 Sigismund III, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

Thaler
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 07/20/2019  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
He lists how the obverse legend and date location varies through the series. I don't think he mentions varieties within a date. When I get a chance, I'll edit this post by adding a photo of the page.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

I do not think this list is complete (deSaulcy was published in 1841), as you can also find on the web a 1527 and 1531 with legend LOTHOR Z BAR DVX, and there is a 1537 with the date in exergue, and I've seen punctuation differnces (annulets , crosses) for 1544.
Edited by tdziemia
07/21/2019 1:30 pm
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 Posted 07/20/2019  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1627 -- Principality of Transylvania, 1 groschen:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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 Posted 07/21/2019  06:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lithuania
Grosze 1626
SIG III.D.G.REX.PO.M.D: L.
SIGISMUNDUS TERTIO DEI GRATIA REX POLONIA MAGNUS DUX LITUANIA
Sigismund the third, by grace, king of Poland, grand duke of Lithuania
GROSS MAY DUCA LIT1626
GROSSUS MAGNI DUCATUS LITUANIA
grossus of the grand duchy of Lithuania
(c) - 2 fish 1618-30 Kristupas Narvsevicius
Krzysztof_Naruszewicz
"Wadwicz coat of arms"
Mint: Vilnius
Reference: Kopicki 3504, Eraser # 1325, KM # 32
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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 Posted 07/21/2019  06:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DREIPOLKER (1/24 thaler=1,5 groschen)
1626
Kurfürstentum Brandenburg- Georg Wilhelm (1619-1640)
George William, Elector of Brandenburg (1595-1640)
GE.WI.MAR.BR.S.R.I.E.
GEORGIUS WILHELMUS MARCHIO BRANDENBURGIS SACRI ROMANI IMPERII ELECTOR
George William Margrave of Brandenburg Prince Elector of the Holy Roman Empire
MONE.NO.DVC.PRVS

mint: Königsberg cross on heart: 1619-1639: Ernst Pfaler as warden
KM# 56.5
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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