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How Far Back Can We Go? Fifth Edition! Ended At 1461 Waiting On 1460 C. E. (A. H. 864)

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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/11/2019  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm pretty sure that @j1m answered that more difficult question in one of the previous OFEY threads.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 12/12/2019  08:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm pretty sure that @j1m answered that more difficult question in one of the previous OFEY threads.
I have, but I keep finding different considerations.

TL/DR is that Islamic, Arab-Sassanian, and regular Sassanian coinage should, in principle, get us up to the late 490s AD, though I hadn't exhaustively checked; and from roughly 350 AD on it's a straight road to something like 3rd century BC, via Bosporan, Seleukid, Ptolemaic, Parthian, and Western Kshatrapa coins (in no particular order), as well as numerous single-year types.

The 350-500 range is a big black box, though; there are very few dated coins in that range, possibly even fewer single-year types, and one of the biggest participants (Gupta drachms) is very unreliable because the dates are off flan far more often than not (to the extent where it can be almost impossible to tell whether a date had not been minted, or just doesn't happen to have been attested yet; it doesn't help that most of the easily findable sources for known attested dates are from the 19th century, so I wouldn't know about any metal detecting finds).

My current best guess is 492 AD as the most recent unfillable year, though it depends on some assumptions about late Gupta coins that I was not very sure of.
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Gallienus's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2019  1:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gallienus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1486 Guildiner, Sigismund, Austria although I've also heard it called The Holy Roman Empire

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Provenance:bought from Spink & Son, fixed price, ca. 1998.

I've also bid on the 1484 1/2 guildiner and expect to have one in about 3-5 years.

Incidentally I just had the 1486 out as I took a group of 12 coins to show someone I met recently who was also "a coin collector". I just returned it back to the SD Box but can get a weight with my Ohaus balance and eventually a surface composition as this pawn shop guy has an XRF.

I do a lot of displays, talks to high school groups, and occasionally BSA merit badge counselor for coin collecting. The 1486 is always impressive to show to people or other collectors & I get comments like "No way, it can't be that old".

thanks to january1may for alerting me to this thread
Edited by Gallienus
12/12/2019 1:43 pm
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2019  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
thanks to january1may for alerting me to this thread
Woohoo!

Do not let me forget to change the topic title tomorrow.
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2019  4:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Spectacular coin @gallienus! Glad to see you.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2019  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Progress! Thx to @gallienus again (and @j1m for letting him know that we needed his help).
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Petrus's Avatar
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 Posted 12/13/2019  05:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indeed very very nice guildiner!
Sigismund the rich married 3 times. He was 56 and dementing when he married the sixteen year old and naughty Catherine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathe...atharina.jpg
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/13/2019  05:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a Half Stuiver from the Netherlands City State of Nijmegen dated AD 1485:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864



"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 12/13/2019  06:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Duchy of Brabant, regency of Philip the Fair, undated double patard minted in Antwerp April 12 to December 24, 1485, deWitte 552.
Now I am out until 1479. During our recent pause, I did some research in deWitte on years before 1474 (earliest dated coin) when Brabant had an undated coin minted within a calendar year. For the 1400s, I only came up with a double mite minted in 1458, a pieter d'argent minted in 1431, and a dubbel groot minted in 1409. I can keep my eye out for these in case a future How Far Back thread ever gets to these years.
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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 Posted 12/13/2019  07:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very neat double patard!

Incidentally, the rules don't actually say anything about the coin being minted within a calendar year; it just has to have a minting period of a year or less. Something like, say, October to April would work as well (despite technically spanning two calendar years).

The next eligible date in my collection (at the moment, that I know of) is, alas, 1361 (then 1359 and 1334); I doubt that we would get that far.
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 12/13/2019  07:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Likewise, after the 1470s, I have 1384, 1380, 1339 and 1338 (two!). Thank you for the reminder that I can also look for issues minted for less than 12 months.

Apparently the mint records in the Low Countries were well preserved over many centuries, which is a miracle given the many years of warfare in the 16th and 17th centuries.
Edited by tdziemia
12/13/2019 08:01 am
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 12/13/2019  10:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looking good!

I removed the topic title alert. I will put it back when we get stuck again.
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pepactonius's Avatar
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 Posted 12/13/2019  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm rapidly running out of coins for this thread --- just 1482, 1478, 1477, 1476, 1475, (1473 still hasn't arrived), 1470, and 1465.

After that, there's big gaps until 1426 and 733, etc.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/13/2019  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
(1473 still hasn't arrived)


That is good news @pep as this is my next gap.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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