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 Replies: 60 / Views: 5,660 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United Kingdom
17956 Posts |
In France in the 1960s the 1-centime piece (equivalent to 1 old pre-1960 franc) was relatively common. When inflation took off in the early 1970s, the French government didn't demonetise the coin, they just stopped making them (except a few hundred thousand a year for mint sets). All major manufacturers and government organisations started pricing everything so that it ended in 0 or 5 centimes. The price of postage stamps, for instance, always went up by 5c at a time and was always a multiple of 5c. When I lived in France in the late 1970s, almost all goods in shops were priced in multiples of 5c, and where occasionally something ended in an unusual number of centimes, it was left to the customer and shopkeeper to decide what to pay - in my experience, prices were usually rounded up! I remember frequently buying bars of chocolate priced at 1.08 francs from one shop because I knew that shop usually gave the exact change! By 1980 1 centime coins (and the old aluminium 1 and 2 francs) had pretty much disappeared, although as far as I know they remained legal tender right up to the introduction of the Euro in 2002. The last time I ever got any in change was at a motorway service area in 1981, when I got a handful of old aluminium 1F and 2F coins making up 10 centimes! I expect another customer had paid with them and the cashier was just keen to get rid of them!
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Moderator
 United States
188830 Posts |
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The round up/down option requires eating the nickel or asking the customer to eat the nickel. Just link rouding to the nearest nickel, rounding to the nearest dime will even out over time.  Quote:
The nickel can stay, even at a loss, just to avoid the mess around what to do with the dime and quarter. Nope. Make it from something cheaper or get rid of it. Quote: I wonder if retailers like Walmart have more clout in this regard than zinc mining. Walmart does not care. Pricing does not matter because totals are thrown off by sales tax anyway. Stores will adapt. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
I wouldn't ignore the retailer impact so easily. Buyers don't care about "with tax" totals, just the item price. Walmart's annual revenue in 2016 was $482 billion. If the average item was $20 (which seems high), they sold 24 billion items. If they have to switch their "psychological pricing" from .99 to .95, they lose almost a billion dollars. |
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Moderator
United States
188830 Posts |
I said Walmart does not care and I stand by it. Actually, they used to favour ".88" and ".98" pricing in the past. However, their prices are allover the place these days. Probably because they are selling everything as cheap as they possibly can. I am sure they change prices all the time as they do cost averaging when new inventory comes in. The price is going to be what the price is, penny or nickel or neither. Point is, if Walmart can get over it, everyone will get over it or perish in their wake. Not that it needs to be said, but Amazon and ebay will definitely get over it.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2023 Posts |
As more and more transactions are done digitally, whether we have cent coins or not doesn't matter for psychological pricing. Prices will still end in 99 because digital transactions won't need to apply nickel-rounding.
Retailers might care about cent coins based on their impact on the time it takes for cashiers to count change. I recall some study showing that retailers saved time (and therefore money) by nickel-rounding for cash transactions. On the other hand, I have not seen any studies that show how much they lose when credit card readers can't read the magnetic stripe or the chip.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3402 Posts |
Cash transactions are the ones that are affected. This is a striking point for socialists/liberals who say that the poor (their voting block) would be adversely affected and companies will just round up. So how much could that be for a year? Give everyone filing taxes with an AGI under $30K a twenty-five dollar tax credit.
KK
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74481 Posts |
I know not everybody likes Pennies, but I do, and I would be a wreck if they stop producing them. That's how I do my hobby. I go to the bank, and ask for a box of Pennies every week. Don't forget about the wonderful varieties and errors too. So my vote is to not eliminate the penny.   Jbuck, I know you absolutely hate Pennies, and want them to be gone, but I want them to still be here. You'll have to fight me for it (not actually, just kidding of course)!  Errers and Varietys.
Edited by Errers and Varietys
08/06/2018 7:00 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
I don't mean to argue with you jbuck, and obviously there are a lot of factors at play. I just wouldn't minimize the impact of being forced by a currency change to alter your prices by 1-4 cents when you move 20+ billion products. It ain't chump change. I'm sure they've all already worked out contingency plans, but I wonder which side of cent elimination these retailers lobby on.
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Valued Member
United States
314 Posts |
Just don't understand how a coin collector can *hate* the one cent coin. I can understand making a reasoned argument against it, but who really cares? And from a collector viewpoint, I assert that the Lincoln Cent, one of the most attractive, beloved, and important coins in our history, would suffer if cents were discontinued. That's a complex question, and I'm open to being proven wrong on that. Finally, I don't understand the big deal about converting cents back into "real money." You throw them in a bucket every day, and periodically take them to the credit union or grocery story. All of the former and most of the latter now run them through their machine with no discount. |
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Moderator
United States
188830 Posts |
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... and companies will just round up No, they will not. Rounding to the nearest is easy, but rounding down is easier and wins customer loyalty. Once one retailer does it, all of the competitors will do the same. Quote:
Jbuck, I know you absolutely hate Pennies, and want them to be gone, but I want them to still be here. I do not hate them. I want them to continue in mint and proof sets for collectors (in 95% copper at that). However, they are an unnecessary burden for commerce. Quote:
I just wouldn't minimize the impact of being forced by a currency change to alter your prices by 1-4 cents when you move 20+ billion products. It ain't chump change. They will not have to. Electronic payments are still going to be to the cent, so the rounding will done on the total sale, not the prices on the shelves. Quote:
I wonder which side of cent elimination these retailers lobby on. They are probably on neither side, but I have a least two takeaways with the retailers I have had direct relations with (as their technology provider). They hate dealing with cash (but will always take it). They are more concerned with competing with online sellers. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5029 Posts |
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I do not hate them. I want them to continue in mint and proof sets for collectors (in 95% copper at that). However, they are an unnecessary burden for commerce.  This will come to pass. Not sure when, but I think before the end of my lifetime. Edited by scopru
08/07/2018 11:29 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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The Cent, Nickel, & Dollar bill ALL need to go and the Dollar coin and Half Dollar need to be put into circulation. you'd have to do something with the half-dollar though. Currently with one half-dollar weighing the same as two quarters there's no advantage to using the half-dollar. If it weighed less than two quarters there would be the advantage of less weight in your pockets. But to make it weigh less you probably have to make it smaller, and that causes problems because the dollar coin is already smaller and there's no room size room between the quarter and the dollar for a half-dollar coin. A better solution would just simply be to eliminate the half-dollar and just use two quarters. Quote:
If they have to switch their "psychological pricing" from .99 to .95, they lose almost a billion dollars. there would be no reason to change their psychological pricing. They can still in prices in .99 and the rounding takes place after the sales tax is applied. The customer still sees the psychological price, and Walmart loses nothing. Quote:
This is a striking point for socialists/liberals who say that the poor (their voting block) would be adversely affected and companies will just round up. this is not possible. There is no way a merchant can set his prices so that no matter what item you pick, or combination of items, or quantity of items, the final total after taxes are applied will always have to round up. The only way to have this this work so that you always round up would be for customers to always only buy one item at a time. Quote:
I just wouldn't minimize the impact of being forced by a currency change to alter your prices by 1-4 cents when you move 20+ billion products. Except there is no reason to alter your prices. Your prices have no effect the final rounding. Quote:
I can understand making a reasoned argument against it, but who really cares? True we could solve the loss problem by simply adding an additional 2 1/2 dollar charge on every income tax form submitted. Quote:
Finally, I don't understand the big deal about converting cents back into "real money." You throw them in a bucket every day, and periodically take them to the credit union or grocery story. It shouldn't be a problem, the problem is only a small percentage of people actually do that, and so the mint has to make another 9 billion cents every year. There have been several attempts over the years to try and get people redeem their coin horns. And in every case they have failed. The only thing that really seems to work to get people to redeem their change are severe economic collapses such as in 2008. And I really would not like to see the government deliberately engineer an economic collapse every few years just to get the coins back in circulation. Quote:
The rounding is done on the total sale, not the prices on the shelves. one small correction, "The rounding is done on the total sale, after the sales tax is applied, not the prices on the shelves." |
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Moderator
United States
188830 Posts |
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But to make it weigh less you probably have to make it smaller, and that causes problems because the dollar coin is already smaller and there's no room size room between the quarter and the dollar for a half-dollar coin. A golden half dollar that is significantly smaller than the golden dollar and has an abnormal edge (that is, not round) would work. Of course, half of America would lose its mind over it.  Quote:
one small correction Not necessary. Total sale always includes taxes. The sum before taxes is the subtotal. Look on your receipts.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1723 Posts |
All arguments made when Canada phases it out. No one here really misses it, franchises didn't collapse, and everyone easily adapted to rounding up and down for cash transactions. The penny was a useless coin for transactions in this day an age. It's going to ok guys. It's going to be ok. There there. Lol.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
I'm entering the  phase with this discussion. Quote:
Electronic payments are still going to be to the cent Part of the contention here is that a major retailer will end up charging a different "electronic payment" total price than a rounded cash total, and I flat out disagree with that - customers will scream. And I don't care whether we're talking 1.99 "psychological pricing" or total with tax. The fact is that a retailer like Walmart has (from their own website) 270 million customer visits per week, and $500 billion in annual revenue. This works out to an average per visit expenditure of $35.61. The average sales tax in the US is 8.45%, so the tax on that average sale is $3.10, making the average sales total $38.62. So now, without the cent, rounding means $38.60. Chopping off that .02 with 14.040 billion annual customers means 280 million dollars, for just this one retailer. I don't know how anybody thinks these major players are just sitting on the sidelines going "whatever, business as usual". I'm willing to bet they've analyzed this to death, and have an opinion. |
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Posted 08/06/2018 2:59 pm
