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Is Buying 20 War Nickels A Good Investment

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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5830 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2019  10:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Like Fashion every series have at time goes through a trend, if you could recognize when to buy and sell! Where's the Crystal Ball!!
Valued Member
United States
314 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2019  08:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add einstem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
To end up with a small fortune after investing in coins, start with a large fortune


Great Advice!!

Unless you are a professional coin dealer that is attempting to buy and sell coins to make a living, collect coins for the history, for the enjoyment, for the social interaction, for the challenge, or for the fun.

I do it for a bit of all of the above....

But do NOT do it in any way as an "investment"..

There are MUCH better ways to make money if that is your goal..


Sure, you can occasionally get "lucky" and grab an undergraded coin and sell it at a profit, but as a whole, the Coin market is declining or (in some sectors) increasing at only a very marginal rate.. but much slower then other types of investments....


Even professional coin dealers are finding it increasingly difficult to make a living in this market.. and the "brick and mortar coin stores" are closing at a very large rate.. and the move to "Graded Coins" due to the huge problem of "fakes" is driving the "entry price" for many coins even higher.

And if you ever sat down and calculated your 'true hobby costs' as a true business "P&L" and included all your costs on one side (materials, hobby-related fees, shipping costs, travel costs, ebay fees, Paypal fees, show attendance costs, etc. etc.) and compared that to your sales revenue), I would doubt any "coin hobbiest" is making any money..

From an "investment" perspective, you are MUCH better off investing your money in a diversified portfolio of stocks, bonds, and other types of equities....


My advice is enjoy it as a hobby.. if a few coins make a bit of money, great.. but that will be an outlier..

If you want to make money, consult a qualified investment professional and consistently invest in a diversified portfolio of equities over a long period of time.. much better returns and almost no effort..

Or just get a second job doing something that gives you a paycheck.. I adjunct teach for extra money.. easy to calculate my "time" vs. my "pay" and know exactly how much I get an hour.. Too bad that I spend most of my adjunct teaching money on my "coin hobby".. oh well..

Peace.

Michael

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mdpmedia's Avatar
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3546 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2019  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...much slower then other types of investments....


I would tend to agree with this statement for the most part, however, certain economic cycles make PMs(precious metals) more desirable which in turn proportionally elevates PM-containing coins.

This elevation in coin pricing can sometimes be magnified if a run on PMs occurs resulting from an unexpected tumultuous world event...

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mdpmedia's Avatar
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 Posted 04/07/2019  7:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One final thought warranting a distinct post:

Also, these nickels are somewhat similar in concept to other types of denominations in MS conditions w/r/t valuations. I am in the camp of fighting to more rapidly realize an exponentially higher ROI (return on investment) as time proceeds etc.

The overall market has a greater propensity to want CAC-graded coins, for example, compared to the obvious un-slabbed counterpart and even to the same PCGS or NGC graded coin. This fact assists me to more efficiently attain my personal aforementioned goal of a quicker turnaround which in turn lowers those burdensome and sometimes nebulous inventory costs since they are hard to quantify. Just compare the time, costs and effort to sell 6-$ 50 coins on ebay to that of just one CAC-graded $ 300 coin: no contest.

Also, if one compares PCGS or NGC coins that must be seen to the same 'sight unseen' CAC coin the realized prices are repeatedly and significantly elevated comparatively speaking. I relish the fact that I finally made a repeatedly good decision in acquiring CAC-designated slabs since those slabs have a much greater demand compared to coins void of the CAC label. It is for this reason that I have decided to liquidate most of the low end junk I used to pick up at auctions and replace them with fewer numbers of the more valuable CAC MS examples.

Briefly stated, the truth of the matter is that the OP's nickels packaged as CAC-approved coins should barter for more, sell quicker and consequently experience an overall higher demand than non-CAC coins. This might possibly be an alternative option for the OP to mull over as a safer and more reliable investment or hobby vehicle for the long run.

IMHO
Valued Member
United States
314 Posts
 Posted 04/08/2019  10:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add einstem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This elevation in coin pricing can sometimes be magnified if a run on PMs occurs resulting from an unexpected tumultuous world event...


Yes - Completely Agree. For coins that contain precious metal (silver, gold), large increases in the underlying value of these commodities will result in a correlated increase in the value of the coins. This has been historically seen several times throughout history (the famous "silver run" of the very late 1970s caused by the Hunt Brothers, etc.). In some cases, this has even resulted in large runs of people "selling coins for melt", which is why the coin production numbers and the surviving population numbers can often be so widely dispersed.

However, I would posit that if your goal is to simply invest in precious metals, then there are better ways to do that then through coins. You can purchase mutual funds, investment indices, pure bullion, or other types of investment vehicles that are more more directly tied to precious metals value then through coins - although I would caution anyone from ever investing more then perhaps a few percent of their total investable assets in a single sector such as precious metals.

But agree that there is definitely an underlying "precious metal component" that is included in the value of silver, gold, (and now platinum) coins. In fact, I would argue that for many of the "modern issues" such as ASEs or even Silver Mint Sets that have huge populations, that is the primary component of their value anyway - it certainly isn't based on rarity!

Also remember that coins do not benefit from the same tax treatment as other types of investments, so any "gains" in coins will be "less tax efficient" then some other types of investment assets. And the "buy/sell" spread on coins is exceptionally large compared with other types of investments. For example, the buy/sell spread on a coin can be 10% to 20% or even higher.. whereas the bid/ask spread on a mutual fund will be a fraction of a percent, and for an ETF, will be close to zero. And many lower value coins are highly illiquid.. I have dozens and dozens of Jeffersons, LWCs, and Roosevelts that I purchased that I can't sell to dealers at close to anything near what I purchased them for.. many won't even take them at all...

Again, nothing here is to discourage anyone from trying to make some money buying/selling coins.. and I am sure it can be done and happens.. my only comment is that for the "casual collector" or "hobbiest" such as myself, it is definitely not a very likely scenario and shouldn't be the goal.

And I would never recommend to anyone to invest solely (or even heavily) in coins (or any "collectible" for that matter) in place of a a well-diversified investment portfolio.

Regards,

Michael
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United States
314 Posts
 Posted 04/08/2019  10:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add einstem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It is for this reason that I have decided to liquidate most of the low end junk I used to pick up at auctions and replace them with fewer numbers of the more valuable CAC MS examples.


Yes - agree! After several years of collecting "sets" of generally lower-end, raw coins, I am also moving to this approach as well.

I have enjoyed and learned greatly from working on my LWC, Jefferson, Roosevelt, Peace dollar, Franklin, etc. sets.. but I am shifting now to focusing on higher-end, certified coins as well.


For example, instead of collecting an entire set of " Jefferson nickels", how about just a set of just top-grade Wartime Nickels with FS designation?

Or instead of an entire Lincoln wheat set, just purchase one awesome 1909 S, 1909 S VDB, and a 1914D... probably worth more then the entire rest of the collection combined.

And history has supported the "key dates" as being some of the "better" long-term investments (if you are interested in that aspect of collecting).

Or instead of a whole Washington quarter, just save up and get a 32D and a 32S.. which are probably worth more then the rest of the entire collection combined..


And why even try to get a whole set of Buffalo nickels or Indian Heads or Morgans (which is almost impossible anyhow), when instead I can purchase a few gorgeous examples..

For example, I saw a totally beautiful Silver 3 Cent Piece at a show a few weeks back.. beautiful strike and awesome toning color.. why try to get a whole bunch of "mediocre" examples of a very difficult coin to find in a good strike.. just get one and be done..

Probably means much fewer coins in my collection, but coins that will have more beauty, value, and a more exciting collecting and coin hunting experience..

And definitely agree that graded coins from top-tier graders (PCGS, NGC) plus possible some with the "CAC" sticker will definitely improve your ability to resell these down the line.

They will also help my kids/grandkids one day if they inherent my collection to quickly find out what they are actually worth and not get ripped-off by an unscroupolus dealer if they ever go to sell something from the set.

These certifications also provide me (the buyer) with a nice assurance in today's world of ever-increasing fake and altered coins.. some that are getting hard for anyone except the "experts" to truly identify. And I don't see the situation getting better!


Regards,

Michael
Valued Member
United States
206 Posts
 Posted 04/08/2019  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andy Herkimer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The truth is that nobody knows. Silver prices could double or triple and you would do great. Or they could go down and you could lose money. Most likely they won't fluctuate much in price over the long term and therefore there are better investments.

I buy whatever I like and due to space constraints, I house my collections in dansco albums. I often crack coins out of holders and place them in albums even though I know the coin is worth more in the slab. However I can not enjoy the coin in a slab as much as an album. I had a full set of graded proof nickels, didn't enjoy rattling through slabs every time I wanted to see them. So consequently I didn't look at them much. In a dansco album I can enjoy the coins much better and look through a full collection which I often do.

I am working on a 7070 type set now and know I will be cracking out some $300 - $600 coins. Some people would think that's crazy but it's the way I enjoy my collection.
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USSID18's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2019  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USSID18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I am working on a 7070 type set now and know I will be cracking out some $300 - $600 coins. Some people would think that's crazy but it's the way I enjoy my collection.


You're my kind of guy. Join the club. !
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superjess's Avatar
United States
18 Posts
 Posted 04/12/2019  02:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add superjess to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another fact to look at is the refinement cost if you purchase them for silver content. The cost of refining a 35% coin to .999 is going to be higher than refining 90% due to increased difficulty.
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