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 Replies: 16 / Views: 2,754 |
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New Member
Malaysia
1 Posts |
Im new here Need someone to verivy this coin. Thanks a lot.   |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7963 Posts |
 This is a fake. Edited by tdziemia
10/11/2019 10:02 pm
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Valued Member
United States
272 Posts |
Can Tdziemia or anyone else possibly tell me why this coin was determined to be fake without a weight or dimensions. I personally collect reales and am definately curious on this one. Sure the details look blotchy and its warn but for a 200 plus year old coin I have seen worse. This isn't a fantasy piece or a 1795 dollar or a crazy condition key date. We maybe shouldn't voice opinions without reasoning for our beliefs...
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
10/12/2019 04:24 am
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Valued Member
Spain
125 Posts |
There is no need to know weight of dimensions to know this is a very ugly fake, sorry. Simply, the king's portrait is a bad copy of the original. Just compare with a real one.  Regards |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
The banners reverse with the words PLUS VLTRA go over the columns on a genuine coin, not behind them as on this one.
And even with this amount of wear, we would expect to see some of the lettering on them.
The two large laurel leaves at the very top of the head obv should both go over the hair, but one goes behind on this coin. And they are too small.
There are a lot of 1801 coins available for viewing on CoinArchives, and none of them show variation in these details.
I also agree with txabs that the proportions of the bust are wrong. The neck is too thick, no space between back of neck and ribbon, etc.
I don't even own an 8 reales coin, but in this case there are enough mistakes by the forger to make it clear cut.
Edited by tdziemia
10/12/2019 07:11 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
 Not meaning to  but besides the other gross lapses in details of the design, the first obvious thing screaming forgery is those dentils not extending to the edge, indicating this was struck with a collar, which the genuine article never was. Colligo ergo sum
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Valued Member
United States
272 Posts |
Thank you everyone I did see the hair looked like it was engraved by a kindergartener. Will have to figure out the denticles on these coins I hear it mentioned alot. Just trying to learn here someone said color was wrong is there really a correct color with a 200 yr old coin.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
As humans we train ourselves from birth to recognize faces, the eyes are probably the most important single feature.
The 'eyes' don't have it in this case, = fake.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4618 Posts |
This is just a heads-up. It may be a problem with my PC and nothing more. There's something odd about the JPG images from the first post of this topic. Adobe Photoshop will not open the file when I saved them to my PC. I was going to do an overlay with the two images as a diagnostic tool, but I get a hard halt with I try to open the image. Once I click on the "OK" button, I'm taken to a Norton Virus Protection screen. I've never seen this with any of the hundreds of thousands of image files I've worked with in Photoshop. I don't know if the image files are infected, but I'm doing some research. Has anyone else tried to download these files and had a problem? Here's the stop screen from Photoshop on my PC.  ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!! 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
Quote:
is there really a correct color with a 200 yr old coin. The short answer is no, because "silver" comes in all different purities, and because photographs are taken with different types of light, different angles, backgrounds, etc. But, since you have a number of silver coins of this age, you understand what a natural 200 yr old patina looks like for a high grade coin and for a worn coin, and probably what a cleaned 200 yr old silver coin looks like, too. For this coin, I think those who commented on color may be referring to a uniform gray color and surface texture that is suspicious. To me the color and texture remind me of a circulated 50 to 100 year old cupronickel coin, but since I don't have any of these colonial 8 reales, I wouldn't trust myself to judge anything from the color in a photo. Edited by tdziemia
10/12/2019 12:15 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4618 Posts |
The problem I was having with the OP's image was the use of IMG and JPG in the file name. I was able to correct it.
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
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Valued Member
Romania
86 Posts |
This is hard to call a fake.
It is rather a poor reproduction.
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Moderator
United States
189767 Posts |
to the Community! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
As stated the coin is a very poorly made copy of an 1801 8 reales. It is essentially worthless because it is a recently made Numismatic Forgery. It is still in production last time I checked and has a street value under $1. This example has been aged by someone who has made it somewhat more deceptive than normal. However, I would suggest (with no intention of being cruel) that anyone who looks at this coin and can not immediately tell it is bad should not be collecting Portrait 8R coins until they have become much more familiar with what genuine coins look like. Go to a several coin dealers and look at pictures in places like the Heritage Archive until you understand the limit of normal variation in these coins. Otherwise, you will be very disappointed when you try to sell a coin like this and discover it is worthless. The photographs here are completely adequate to identify that the coin was not even struck on a screw press. Notice the high rim on the reverse that is far higher than the detail of the coin which appears worn. Impossible.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
muddyknuckles You seem genuinely interested in the series. You should buy my book.
For older members of the forum (meaning people who have been here a while) - this coin is a well known fake having been around for about 20 years. The question has been raised before.
This is why many people omit the reasons.
The 1801 Chinese fake was originally made with a reeded edge like a modern US quarter dollar. Spanish Colonial coins were edged but with a repeated pattern of circles and rectangles. The forgers may have finally corrected this error but always check the edge first to make sure it is correct.
The edge of a colonial 8R was applied to the planchet BEFORE it was struck.
All colonial 8Rs were struck in an open sided manually powered screw press. This means that unlike modern coins colonial 8Rs NEVER have a high rim. The dentils (lozenge shaped ovals forming the border) will therefore extend to the edge of the silver. The reason was that the dies were made intentionally larger than the planchets. If the design ran off the coin at the edge - the coin could not be clipped (shaved to steal silver) without it being noticed.
Here, in particular on the reverse of the coin, the dentils end well before the edge of the coin and there is a raised rim segment.
So the coin is struck on the wrong press and there is no need to look further for reasons as to why it is a fake.
But here the details of the coin are far outside the permissible amount of variation seen on coins of the type.
Always remember no question is stupid unless you don't ask it.
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Replies: 16 / Views: 2,754 |
Posted 10/12/2019 12:05 am
