Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades (V3.0)

Indeed that K in KAROLVS is quite creative!

Speaking of letterforms, I know you've (@spence) studied the letter A in depth...I was surprised to learn that in Flanders, engraving this letter with / without its crossbar was systematically used to marks coins of different "emissions." The Flanders double groot I posted upthread has barred As, which date it to 1416-1418. The same type without the bars is an earlier emission under the same ruler with a broader date range, 1409-1416. This was also a characteristic of the Flanders 2 mite coins I posted last decade.

My last coin issued solely in this decade is this half groat of Poland issued under Wladyslaw II (Wladyslaw Jagiello) dated to 1410-1412, Kopicki 359 and Pawlikowski type XIV. Pawlikowski splits Kopicki 359 (no letters under crown) into at least 4 date ranges, based on other features of the coin (1406-7; 1408; 1408-10 and 1410-12).



Obv: Crown. + mOnE WLADISLAI
Rev" Crowned eagle. + ReGIS POLOnIe

@john you are blowing my mind with this, but hopefully I'm going to be learning something here. My thought was that the progression of months went:

October 1417
November 1417
December 1417
January 1418
February 1418
March 1418
etc.

for countries using the Julian (and since the mid 16-Century, the Gregorian) calendars.

However, I do see reference to there being a period of time during the middle ages when New Year was celebrated for the Feast of the Annunciation:

https://www.history.com/topics/holidays/new-years

It sounds like you are saying that the progression would have gone:
October 1417
November 1417
December 1417
January 1417
February 1417
1-24 March 1417
25-31 March 1418
April 1418
etc.

Is that right? Or was it more that the church was celebrating a holiday despite the number of the year actually having incremented a few months previous? I don't want us to get too far down this rabbit hole, but if the starting/ending month of the years has varied over time then it is good for us to learn that.

@Spence, those Aachen groschens are really nice. Very original dating on the 1411 one.

I have the precursor to your Florette, the first Charles VI gros - the K in Karolus is similar on mine. This was a single issue, ordered June 7, 1413. It was to be replaced by another gros issue Nov 3 the same year, so this one is definitely issued only in 1413.

France 1413, gros "aux lis," Charles VI, Rouen. 0.931 silver, 2.87 g, 27 mm. Duplessy 381, Lafaurie 385, Roberts 2871.



Obv: Three fleurs-de-lys.
Inscription: KAROLVS FRANCORVN REX (Charles King of the Franks).
Point under the 15th letter ('V') for Rouen.

Rev: Cross with fleurs-de-lys.
Inscription: SIT NOMEn DomiNI BENEDICTVm (Blessed be the name of the Lord).
Point under the 15th letter ('D') for Rouen.

The N's are consistently retrograde on this one.

This was the first coin of good silver in decades, and there is an interesting story behind that. In 1413 Paris came under the control of the Duke of Burgundy, John the Fearless, who allied himself with the Cabochiens, a group of wealthy butchers (!). They managed to take control of the city, including the royal administration. Among several things they ordered during the months they were in power was the return to good money, resulting in the decree for this coin issue.

Yes.



No, the actual year started on 25 March. It's why the tax year in Britain starts on 6 April - which was 25 March plus an adjustment in 1800 to fix an issue caused by mismatched leap year calculations.

It was always a fixed date (in England at least), but the new year was a different day in different countries until they all switched to January 1.

So you need to be careful you know which systems are being used if you want to work out chronology by comparing dates on coins, dates in original documents and dates in modern references. Sometimes, the date will be written something like 'January 1417/8' to tell you they mean January 1418 in the new calendar, which would have been January 1417 at the time. They did this at the time as well as in modern references. I've seen it in baptism records, which obviously affects how old someone was if you get it wrong.

As an example of how it affects coin dating, I have a Charles I Newark Siege Ninepence dated 1645. The coins dated 1645 were minted in January-March 1645 i.e. the end of 1645, which we now would call early 1646. That was just before Charles I arrived in May 1646. Those minted after 25 March were dated 1646. The date of the coin doesn't make sense in terms of historical events if you don't know that, as there wasn't a siege in January-March 1645 according to the new calendar. It would also affect the year I assign to the coin for a thread like this...is it 1645 (as on the coin) or 1646 (as we would have it now on the current calendar)?

Which country you're in matters quite a bit in terms of when this is relevant. The 'October Revolution' in Russia actually happened on 6-7 November according to the new calendar, because Russia didn't change over until 1918. They still celebrate 'Russian New Year' a couple of weeks after us, since although they moved that to January 1, it gradually goes out of alignment because of the leap year issue in the Julian Calendar (which the Russian Orthodox Church still uses).



Thank you. You wouldn't have wanted to be an international trader in the 1400s! I have enough trouble with different daylight savings dates...

My favorite example is the so-called "gun money" issues of 1689-90, which are conveniently labeled by month.

And the attested dates are, in chronological order...

June 1689
July 1689
August 1689
September 1689
October 1689
November 1689
December 1689
January 1689
February 1689
March 1689
March 1690
April 1690
May 1690
June 1690
July 1690
[August 1690
September 1690
October 1690]

James II had conclusively lost (and fled to France) after the Battle of the Boyne in July 1690, so no new official issues by him had been made after that (the Limerick mint apparently continued unofficially making coins for a few more months).

Fortunately the issuing period had only included one March. There would surely have been some confusion if March 1690 coins were issued both at the start and at the end of the year!

Before I'd looked much into new years, I was totally confused by gun money dates. January-March 1689 didn't make any sense as James II didn't go to Ireland until March! I got a halfcrown dated May 1690 because a) it's more common and so was cheaper and b) I could make sense of it.

Lovely coins, @Spence!

Another gros from me today.

France 1413-14, gros ("grossus" or "gros aux lis sous une couronne"), Charles VI, Rouen. 0.718 silver, 3.70 g, 27.5 mm. Duplessy 384A, Lafaurie 388, Roberts 2874.



Obv: Cross.
Inscription: SIT NOMEN DOMINI BENEDICTVM (Blessed be the name of the Lord) // KL´ DI´ G´ FRACORV REX (Karolus Dei Gratia Francorum Rex - Charles by Grace of God King of the Franks).
Point under the 15th letter ('B') for Rouen.

Rev: Three fleurs-de-lys below a crown, encircled by 11 fleurs-de-lys and a cross.
Inscription: GROSVS TVRONVS (Big Tournois).

Interestingly, two kinds of N's are used: Retrograde N and n.

After the Cabochien revolt had been suppressed and a number of the rebels executed, a new decree for good money was issued November 3, 1413. The "rebel gros" of 0.931 silver (which I showed yesterday) was replaced by a new gros of 0.718 silver. However, the lower fineness was exactly matched by an increase in weight, so the silver content was maintained, and so was the value of 20 deniers tournois. The official explanation was that the previous coins had "not been received well by the public, who had refused to take them ... and had to them seemed too feeble a coin for its value" (freely translated from the royal decree). The new gros was heavier, and looked much like the old "gros tournois," which was also stated on the coin to dispel any doubts on its monetary strength. Still, to fit the king's name and titles, they had to be abbreviated almost beyond recognition; I don't think I have seen the king's name expressed by only two letters - KL - on any other coin.

A decree June 4, 1414, stopped minting of the new gros coins. The minting dates for coins minted in Rouen can be delimited to Dec 8 - Jun 28, the dates for the execution of the decrees dated Nov 3 resp. June 4.