Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades (V3.0)

Yes I posted my 'akche' in the 1430s, although that's another of those coins with a date range so wide it's lucky to get it in the right century.



That's a nice coin for a Golden Horde bronze. The date is clear, even if it is in a peculiar order.

You might recognise this coin with a similarly confusing date. It's 'twice inverted' (first upside down, then back to front, as read in Eastern Arabic numerals):

vv^ = ^^v = v^^
778 = 887 = 788

Tokhtamysh Khan Dang, 1386 (AH788)

Saray al Jadida. Silver, 1.4g. Sultan/Toktamish Khan/May his reign be long. Rev: Minted/in the city of Saray/778 (Sagdeeva 423/429).

This raises questions for me - how did anyone work out the date? Presumably, they were working from Tokhtamysh Khan's known reign, but otherwise it's just rearranging the numbers to fit.

And why were they mixed up? I can guess a few reasons:
- writing the date upside down, so 7s become 8s and 8s become 7s.
- writing the date backwards - the script is right to left, even if numbers in Arabic are meant to be lowest to highest (so would appear in the 'Western' order when written right to left).
- because of the way the numbers are said, you might put the 100, 10 and 1 units in a different order, in the same way Americans write today's date 12/6/21 when we write 6/12/21, because Americans say 'December 6th' and we say '6th of December'.

Otherwise, how does 872 become 782?

I have a coin with a similarly messed-up date for the 1370s; in that case what helped me was that it seems to have been a single-year type, and the date I had could be plausibly rearranged to mean the same year.

For the 1380s I have this coin, with a more prosaic date problem - it's extremely weakly struck...



Timurid Empire (Western Chagatai Khanate)
Timur in the name of Suyurghatmish
AR miri or 2 dinars
Furk mint, 789 AH (1387 AD)
Zeno cat. 6020, Album 2367?

I can only read the 7 and hints of the 8; anything right or down of that is erased by the weak strike. Fortunately there aren't many date options for this brief type.

Referring to Tokhtamysh Khan it may be named invasion [of his coins into the forum]. At least in Russia his name is mostly used with this word after he destroyed Moscow in 1382.



To continue this invasion I'm posting a pul of his time Sarai mint 890AH (if I can correctly read the date based on the upper part of the figures) which corresponds to 1388.



The interesting thing that I weight about 2.5 grams which is more heavy comparing to the puls of that time, so, maybe it is 2 puls coin:)

Besides Golden Horde I have this Ottoman Empire Manghir of Murad I. The reverse inscription is"[The month of] Ramadan [of the year] 790 [AH].", so it may be dated not only by exact year, but even by the month:)

That is one nice piece @ Spence.

Great diversity in coins this decade! Interesting with the many Eastern coins, far outside my experience. And that ducat is lovely, @Spence.

Here is some more gold for you :

France 1385-88, ecu d'or, Charles VI. 1.000 gold, 4.08 g, 28.5 mm. Duplessy 369, Lafaurie 378.




Obv: Crowned royal coat of arms in a shield.
Inscription: KAROLVS DEI GRACIA FRANCORVM REX (Charles by Grace of God King of the Franks).

Rev: Floriated cross in a quadrilobe, crowns and fleurs-de-lys.
Inscription: XPC' VINCIT XPC' REGNAT XPC' IMPERAT (Christ conquers, Christ reigns, Christ commands).

Another of the new types introduced by Charles in 1385, the ecu d'or ("golden shield"). (I'm sure there is a bit of something else than gold in it, but the nominal purity is 100.0 %.)

This type was to be minted for more than 250 years, until the 17th century, at which time it was replaced by the louis d'or.

These the first ecu d'ors are not hard to find in good condition (easier than later issues). At the moment there are 32 available on MA-Shops, most in good condition. That is a bit surprising for a 14th century hammered coin. I guess a combination of good workmanship at the mints, large production quantities, and hoarding rather than circulation all contribute to this.

Awesome gold! I'm hoping to get a medieval gold coin some day, but I doubt it would be anywhere near as nice as yours.


Here's what the date listing looks like at the moment...

1389 - none yet (would be 791 AH)
1388 - Grinya (790 AH)
1387 - january1may (789 AH)
1386 - Grinya (788 AH)
1385 - EddieDiz
1384 - tdziemia (?)
1383 - Spence, EddieDiz, Grinya (785 AH = Mar 1383-Feb 1384)
1382-81 - none yet (would be 784 and 783 AH)
1380 - JohnConduitt, Grinya (782 AH = Apr 1380-Mar 1381)

Within this decade, converting by the larger part of the year, the AH date is consistently 598 years behind the AD date; the changeover to 599 is partway through the 1370s.
For (roughly) the first third of the 14th century AD (8th century AH) the AH date is exactly 600 years behind the AD date - convenient for conversion!


As mentioned above, I don't have any medieval gold, but I do have this (admittedly not very well photographed) silver coin of Antonio Venier...



Republic of Venice, for use in Crete and nearby colonies
Antonio Venier (1382-1400)
Billon tornesello (.111 silver)
Reverse: +ANTO' VENERIO DVX, cross in inner circle
Obverse: +VEXILIFER VENETIAE, in inner circle, winged lion of St. Mark representing Venice
Numista 76361, there listed as Biaggi 2857

I vaguely recall that @Collects82 had a coin of Antonio's predecessor Michele Morosini, who reigned for a few months in 1382.

...and another AH785 (1383):

Timur (Tamerlane) Miri, joint issue with his puppet 'overlord' Suyurghatmish, 1383

Samarkand. Silver, 16mm, 1.5g. Kalima, 785, mint in the margins (zarb Samarkand). By the order of Suyurghatmish - my, Amir Timur Guragan's, word (Album 2375).