Do Proclamation Coins Need To Have Reputable Provenance?

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Author	Replies: 6 / Views: 1,772
MachinMachinMan Pillar of the Community Australia 1985 Posts	Posted 03/14/2022 07:34 am Are all 1787 Great Britain shillings, 1797 Great Britain cartwheel pennies, 1793 Indian rupees, etc, regarded as proclamation coins or do they need to have "reputable provenance" proving they were actually used in the colonies? (If that's even possible) If so, wouldn't the "piece of paper" be worth more than the coin? Edited by MachinMachinMan 03/14/2022 07:43 am Report this Post to the Staff

Sap Moderator Australia 16806 Posts	Posted 03/14/2022 11:32 am No, they don't need "colonial provenance" to be considered Proclamation. I wouldn't think there'd be much "colonial provenance" anyway; the Proclamation didn't actually work all that well at keeping coins in New South Wales, as visiting merchant ships simply increased the price of their wares to compensate. I've never heard of anyone actually being able to prove that any of their proclamation coins were present in NSW in the early 1800s, except maybe coins found in archaeological digs where the dating evidence of the find proves the coin was here then. Most proclamation coins for sale in Australia didn't arrive on this continent until sometime this millennium. Pre-COVID, there were plenty of people who made a good profit by going to Europe, buying up a bunch of cheap common European coins, and bringing them to Australia and selling them locally as "Proclamation coins". They could easily double their money. The best "colonial provenance" in my opinion is to find a coin that's extremely well-worn. Coins in Britain that became worn down sufficiently to be below official tolerances would be promptly withdrawn, melted down and re-issued, but nobody in faraway Australia could be bothered doing that; coins in the colonies simply stayed in circulation until they were worn flat. Of course, nobody would be silly enough to pay extra for well-worn coins simply on the basis of that theory. But I find it a convenient rationale for not collecting the super-high-end-grade coins. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis Report this Post to the Staff
MachinMachinMan Pillar of the Community Australia 1985 Posts	Posted 02/08/2025 7:42 pm 1787 George III shilling (with hearts) worth 1 shilling and 1 pence in the colonies One of the 10 proclamation coins of 1800. Report this Post to the Staff
MachinMachinMan Pillar of the Community Australia 1985 Posts	Posted 07/10/2025 8:26 pm Another of the proclamation coins of 1800: 1797 George III 'Cartwheel' penny (worth 2 pence in the colonies) Edited by MachinMachinMan 07/10/2025 8:27 pm Report this Post to the Staff
january1may Pillar of the Community Russian Federation 5172 Posts	Posted 07/10/2025 9:14 pm There's a lot of worn-slick 1797 pennies out there (often so worn as to be barely identifiable at all; fortunately the design is recognizable enough even in low Poor grades), and given the reports I've read about their supposed unpopularity in Britain, I've often wondered whether those were of Proclamation origin. I don't know what the usual explanation for those is. I agree that short of datable hoards we're unlikely to find anything with actual provenance that far back, especially in that area. Report this Post to the Staff
jbuck Moderator United States 187654 Posts	Posted 07/11/2025 09:33 am Very interesting topic and nice examples! Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
andyg Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 1313 Posts	Posted 07/12/2025 5:42 pm The Cartwheel pennies often turn up in the UK very worn, they were used until I think the recoinage of 1860. They were also good for use as weights in shops, being an ounce of copper - so although withdrawn many still ended up being used for a good few years afterwards. The 2d is much harder to find worn whilst the 1787 Shilling is usually found in about VF as the silver was hoarded. Report this Post to the Staff
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