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 Replies: 49 / Views: 4,701 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11898 Posts |
I think we all wish grading was more black and white with firm, easy to understand and apply definitions, but like everything else in life, it has a lot of gray areas. On top of whether it's PR or SP (an important question) there is also the question of whether it matters if it is PR or SP. Often the so-called branch mint proofs or presentation pieces end up in SP holders. Often I see SP as a subset of PR when there is an special circumstance associated with a striking. Sometimes new designations are created to provide a catch-all for everything that doesn't exactly fit a set bucket. I think that there is enough research and scholarship around this to describe a unique set of circumstances that touch on facets of a coin intended for circulation, that was a pattern for a long-lived design series, a special striking with special dies at the precise moment when steam coin presses were being installed for the first time. I think that the closes analog to this issue is the 1792 Half Disme which is also at the confluence of pattern, presentation and circulating coinage. Those coins are usually graded as business strikes. The 1856 FEC and 1916 SLQ are also pattern-like issues that went into circulation, but those designs hardly changed as the coins went into mass production. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
I was looking for some info on this coin and ran across this for sale at Etsy for $25. I have to say it looks pretty close to the real thing.    IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
10/11/2022 01:55 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36841 Posts |
Unfortunately, they are getting better at their craft.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5192 Posts |
The date font, the amputated legs of Liberty, and the pregnant eagle gives the fake away. But that said, there is a certain quality in the fake.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4692 Posts |
You can probably get the Etsy seller to give you a "proof of authenticity" certificate. For a few extra bucks he may even be able to put this into a fake PCGS holder for you. Wonder how many 1804 dollars he has available. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
I am actually very happy that they didn't catch the labeling error and didn't reholder it before it came in. Getting a kick out of having such an obvious mistake on the slab.  The feather detail and sharpness throughout the eagle is really wild. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
10/14/2022 6:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3653 Posts |
An incredible and beautiful acquisition with a fantastic pedigree, congrats! I find the label spelling error quite hilarious - while I've seen many goofs on TPG labels over the years, you would think on a coin like this they would have double and triple checked the label and then checked it again!  |
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Valued Member
United States
357 Posts |
Congrats on the acquisition. The typo on the label surely is hilarious.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Just saw this thread and PR 64 was my initial thought when I saw the 1st pictures. It looks to be a touch conservatively graded which is as it should be.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Thank you for your kind comments. I thought I would share a kind letter that Todd Imhof at Heritage sent me as he forwarded the original flip, envelope and label that held this coin while it was in the Harry Bass collection. It was a nice gesture mixed with a marketing pitch.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
A remarkably impressive pedigree for a remarkably impressive coin.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Moderator
United States
54283 Posts |
Regarding the one for sale on Etsy, the seller's description tells it all "SILVER Plated with NickelCopper Core" Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here) |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Etsy has become a place crawling with sellers of replica coins. Not sure how a U.S. publicly listed company can get away with that. I suppose at some point they'll be forced to clean up their act like ebay was. It seems like most sellers of replicas are offshore now but the platform is still owned and operated by a domestic firm.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Replies: 49 / Views: 4,701 |
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Posted 10/11/2022 01:39 am
