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 Replies: 28 / Views: 3,205 |
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Valued Member
 United States
65 Posts |
Since I started this thread with my question, I've been doing some reading on various sources online. My tentative understanding is that the Half Cents couldn't be used to pay taxes and other certain things, though they were used in small transactions in day to day commerce. Again, I knew zero on this topic this time yesterday. So this is just what I'm trying to form an understanding on by reading various commentaries and discussions online. So I'm not really confident in this opinion. Just sharing that I'm trying to learn I guess. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Regarding the Half Cents, I don't get it. In 1792 "An Act to Provide For a Copper Coinage" specifically called for the minting of Half Cents, and that "no copper coins or pieces whatsoever except the said cents and half-cents, shall pass current as money, or shall be paid, or offered to be paid or received in payment for any debt, demand, claims, matter or thing whatsoever." It sounds like the copper cent and Half Cent were legal tender to me. What am I missing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coinage_Act_of_1792 |
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Moderator
 United States
54282 Posts |
Good luck trying to spend a 20¢ piece.
Many clerks don't even recognize half dollars.
Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here) |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
697 Posts |
Like many of us, I spend $2 bills, non-silver Ike's, small dollar coins, and Kennedy half dollars to try to spur interest in our wonderful hobby. While cashiers often have to look close to determine the denomination, rarely is there a problem. However, one time the Manager of a Walgreens said she would not accept it. Being I needed no change and had my item in my hand, I said it was all legal tender, feel free to call the police, but I'm walking out, which I did. Steve A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine! My collecting "Pride & Joy" is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set: https://www.PCGS.com/setregistry/ty...edset/213996 |
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Moderator
United States
189053 Posts |
Quote:However, one time the Manager of a Walgreens said she would not accept it. Being I needed no change and had my item in my hand, I said it was all legal tender, feel free to call the police, but I'm walking out, which I did. Nice!   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2208 Posts |
Quote:However, one time the Manager of a Walgreens said she would not accept it. Being I needed no change and had my item in my hand, I said it was all legal tender, feel free to call the police, but I'm walking out, which I did. Oh brother. If it had been me, I would have used the occasion to try to teach her why the money was real and okay. But I have a feeling that even after all that she wouldn't have believed me. Some people will refuse to ever admit that they're wrong. And that's when I would have experienced the same satisfaction you did by walking out. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
There is no federal law requiring that legal tender be accepted by anyone though. If Walgreens has a store policy that they only accept certain coins, and that policy doesn't violate state law, it could be perceived as shoplifting if they decided to make a big deal out of it. There are very few states that have passed laws requiring that merchants accept cash, so unless you're in one of those states you're subject to the store's policy. Apparently there's a lot of misconceptions about this. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2208 Posts |
Quote:
There is no federal law requiring that legal tender be accepted by anyone though. I had such an experience a few years ago at an airport. I wanted to use cash to pay for a meal, but the restaurant said they only accepted credit cards as payment. I thought, what's this world coming to? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
I see that the Payment Choice Act was reintroduced in Congress this year; seems to have been tried before. I can see both sides of the issue. A ton of "underserved" people in this country (4.5% by one article) do not have bank accounts or credit cards, so from that standpoint refusing cash is discriminatory. On the other hand, it costs businesses to process cash and some people out there want to pay their $100 bill with 10,000 loose pennies out of spite, etc. The bill was submitted in June but I don't see any news that it has gone anywhere.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:Regarding the Half Cents, I don't get it. In 1792 "An Act to Provide For a Copper Coinage" specifically called for the minting of Half Cents, and that "no copper coins or pieces whatsoever except the said cents and half-cents, shall pass current as money, or shall be paid, or offered to be paid or received in payment for any debt, demand, claims, matter or thing whatsoever." It sounds like the copper cent and Half Cent were legal tender to me. What am I missing? It confuses a lot of people. What that line was actually doing was outlawing the use of tokens, state coppers, British half pence etc. (get the foreign coppers out of circulation) If you were going to use a copper coin it had to be a Half Cent or large cent. Also just because you could use them as money, that didn't make them legal tender. Copper coins were viewed more as a convenience item that allowed you to make small or exact change. The difference between "current money" and legal tender is that legal tender is a legally recognized offer of payment. It didn't HAVE to be accepted but if it was argued, a court would recognize that an acceptable offer of payment had been made. Copper coins were not a legally recognized offer of payment. Even later when the bronze one and Two Cent Pieces,and the coppernickel 3 and 5 cent pieces were issued they were only granted limited legal tender status. Edited by Conder101
09/24/2023 10:02 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Yeah, I don't see any practical difference between "current money" and "legal tender." Even now as stated above, no federal law requires anyone to accept legal tender as payment for anything. The Half Cent was legislated by Congress to be coined by the United States Mint, it says USA right on the coin, and they specifically said no other copper coins were to be used as money. Seems like we're just parsing definitions. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
Foreign gold and silver were probably the most important form of "current money" until the 1850's. Did US copper coins have the same status? The use of US Trade dollars domestically fell into a similar status. They were meant for foreign trade and US merchants discounted them despite their silver content. Shady employers used them at par to pay workers. Ironically Nevada silver miners. "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
09/24/2023 12:23 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United Kingdom
17964 Posts |
In the UK we tend to demonetize old coins. The pre-decimal farthing went on 1/1/1961, the halfpenny and halfcrown in 1969, penny and brass threepence in 1971 and sixpence in 1980. Five decimal coins have been demonetized: the half penny on 1/1/1985, the large size 5p (and old shilling) on 1/1/1991, the large size 10p (and old florin) in 1992, the large size 50p in 1998 and the circular brass £1 in 2018. The bimetallic £1 and £2 coins are legal tender up to any amount, but there are limits for other coins (see link below). For instance, 1p and 2p coins are legal tender only up to 20p. So a trader can refuse payment if you give him 25 2p coins for a 50p candy bar. There are weird situations regarding a few older coins. Crowns and the various 38mm decimal 25p coins issued up to 1981 are still legal tender, although many have no face value on them and they are the same size as the later commemorative £5 coins. All gold coins from 1837 onwards are legal tender: they had been demonetized in the 1930s, but were made legal tender again in the 1950s so that forgers could be prosecuted for counterfeiting them. At that time private citizens could not buy legal tender gold coins without a Bank of England licence, and the date 1837 was chosen as most Victorian and later gold coins were considered bullion issues whereas earlier coins like George IV sovereigns had a numismatic premium and could be held without restriction. The funniest legal tender situation in the UK concerns Maundy Money - the small silver 1, 2, 3 and 4 pence coins given out by the monarch on Maundy Thursday. When we converted to decimal currency in 1971, it was announced that all Maundy money since 1816 (when the current specifications were introduced) was now legal tender for its face value in NEW pence. So the face value of each coin was multiplied by 2.4 times! This also means that any currency silver threepences issued before 1927 (when the design was changed) are legal tender for 3p as a worn currency threepence cannot be distinguished from a Maundy coin!  There has been a lot of controversy regarding the 'legal tender' status of some recent Royal Mint 'gimmick' coins like the £20... https://www.cash4coins.co.uk/are-20...egal-tender/Edited by NumisRob
09/25/2023 03:57 am
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Replies: 28 / Views: 3,205 |
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Posted 09/20/2023 5:30 pm
