Thanks everyone! I appreciate the good conversation and insights and - based on this thread and the other one I posted - I took some of the advice and have redone the photos (even opening the protective case!).
I'll repost both coins and see if the new photos are more helpful.
to a degree I have to agree with coinfrog. the photos are less than optimal to call MS65 or better coin. we have labels hiding parts of both sides. the photos are little out of focus. its hard enough grading coins especially MS with glare, shadows, orientation issues and in a holder
blackjak I suggest removing any coins from the holder. use indirect light. no overhead light.
the photos are showing surfaces that a more dull than you would normally see on an MS mid grade or higher coin. the right rev field next to the wing appears discolored or missing luster however this could be a reflection in the photo. another reason to remove it from the holder. its fairly easy with these to pop them open. without better photos the coin looks like it was dipped at one point in its life or even a light polishing maybe with a jewelers rag
blackjak we would be glad to reassess the coin if you can give a little better shots of it.
My thoughts exactly. I do not believe it is possible to grade a coin without 100% full pics of both sides, and even then only with sharp definition. Suggestions to the contrary are illogical.
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