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Is There A War On Cash And Precious Metals In 2024

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hfjacinto's Avatar
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7273 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2024  08:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@thq,

It's not the money amount. For example I have an account in Portugal that I inherited from my dad, if I wired that money over to the U.S. the mortgage company would want to know where it came from as the account is several years old and I have records it would not be an issue. If I pulled out $20,000 from my mattress and I put it in my account it would cause red flags. In banking there are 2 types of cash transactions (over $10,000), the first is it's an over $10,000 deposit , regular customer no suspicious activity report. That is sent to the irs and it's almost almost never an issue. They may look at 1 of 100,000 transactions. The other is "suspicious". Which means it's not normal, movements of over $10,000 that are from new depositors , irregular, or have some other criteria are flagged to the irs and those get investigated around 5%~8%. Most are just I had money in my mattress, but some are money laundering or illegal gains.


The reason that mortgages are flagged is that a mortgage company doesn't want to be in a position of not first lien. If the down payment is enough for them not to worry the extra $5000-$100000 is not a worry. If I'm buying a $700,000 home and the proceeds from my house are $400k and I pull $100k out of thin air the mortgage company won't care so much as they have enough lien to get their funds back, now the IRS will care where the money came from, but the mortgage company generally won't.

Please note that I haven't been in the mortgage industry since 1990's so things may have changed.
Edited by hfjacinto
03/28/2024 4:39 pm
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thq's Avatar
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 Posted 03/28/2024  09:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the problem is having a legal source of downpayment money, it seems like any of the direct deposits I cited would be evidence of enough income to write a $5000 check. Cashing a bank CD or IRA. or making a 401-K withdrawal, would be other legal sources.

The sale of an asset to raise the $5000 is another matter. Selling bullion is pulling money out of a mattress - money out of thin air. Selling your house or car or stock shares - assets to which you have title - would seem to be legal sources.

One of the advantages of bullion is that it is money out of thin air. It's a hedge for unexpected expenses - a gypsy bank. But it's not a titled asset.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
03/28/2024 09:33 am
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 03/28/2024  10:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If you've been (like jbuck and I) in our home for a long time, chances are that its paid off. Heck I paid my house of 10 years ago. And I also have no interest in moving
Indeed. House is paid and I plan to stay here until they move me to the crematorium.

Quote:
Staying put in the same house we purchased when we were newlyweds gives you lots of equity to pay cash for the next house without any mortgage loan or asking where the money came from.
This house had a huge down-payment from the sale of my old house, where I lived before being married. And I am just now remembering them asking me where the down payment was coming from, since it was more than my account balances. I told them from the sale of the other house, which had not sold yet. I was being optimistic with the timing; the new house still had to be built, so I had time. It all worked out in the end.
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GLB49's Avatar
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 Posted 03/28/2024  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GLB49 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We are in, and have been in for some time, the "Information Age".
As Raymond Reddington said, any information no matter how small is important to someone.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 03/28/2024  12:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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As Raymond Reddington said, any information no matter how small is important to someone.
Great reference.
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 Posted 03/28/2024  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add glenmorenee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There may be additional info to help us all understand better, but it appears that the OP backed himself into a corner. The loan officer, based on all statements and balances, sees that OP needs to pony up 5k to complete escrow and he doesn't see it ANYWHERE. It may be that with this type of loan, the face amount of the loan is fixed. I think ordinarily any fees and closing costs can be folded into the loan (i.e. increasing the face amount of the loan). Although not great for the borrower because he has borrowed more and his monthly mtg is a tad higher, it greater simplifies the process.

With the benefit of hindsight, many months ago the OP should have made all his balances fat, happy and liquid in anticipation of escrow.
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luvmyCAM's Avatar
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 Posted 03/28/2024  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add luvmyCAM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I got it figured out now...stay legal as always by reporting sales of bullion on federal taxes, keep your mouth shut and incrementally deposit fiat into account several months in advance.
I did get a kick though when the loan officer was looking at my federal returns and bam! there it was "reported and paid coins and bullion" ya for all I know they probably would have called me liar liar pants on fire and denied the loan. All good now but I don't like it not one bit. This bank is on my short list we can use one another then break up once they sell my loan.
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jbuck's Avatar
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 03/28/2024  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for that background info, Helder. Most insightful.
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psuman08's Avatar
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1763 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2024  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add psuman08 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Yet pretty much even everything except boxers or briefs is out there


They know that too. Stores track all your purchases now and are apparently sharing with the government (search gun sale tracking).

This is indeed enlightening. Perhaps selling your bullion in the BST or to a local shop could avoid some of the scrutiny. That said, I am not sure why the mortgage company is concerned if you pay your gains taxes or not. My broker does not check to make sure that I pay capital gains on stock sales.
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nss-52's Avatar
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 Posted 03/29/2024  11:05 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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I am not sure why the mortgage company is concerned if you pay your gains taxes or not. My broker does not check to make sure that I pay capital gains on stock sales.

They were not checking if taxes were paid, they were verifying the source of the money.
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psuman08's Avatar
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 Posted 03/29/2024  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add psuman08 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
They were not checking if taxes were paid, they were verifying the source of the money.


That is not what the OP said:


Quote:
If I couldn't prove I've paid capital gains taxes on bullion and 2. Couldn't produce a bill of sale on bullion then my lender would have bailed.


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 Posted 03/30/2024  04:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add glenmorenee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lender was trying to verify where the 5k would come from. Borrower was caught flat footed and said he'd sell stock. Lender says prove it. Borrower backtracks and says he'll sell PMs. Again lender says prove it.
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nss-52's Avatar
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 Posted 03/30/2024  07:03 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If I couldn't prove I've paid capital gains taxes on bullion
These are the "words", but they were looking for proof of the source of the money, they don't care what taxes were paid.

The sale could have actually produced a loss. It is the amount of the sales price being $5,000 or more that they are looking for.
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luvmyCAM's Avatar
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 Posted 03/30/2024  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add luvmyCAM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes the capital gains tax will be less than $300.00 come tax time. My broker/Realtor whom I hired to represent me is in the millennial generation and I sense her tensing up during our signing festival's. My impression is I'm "that addendum guy" I don't care as i.m.o. their pushing the bounds of common sense I've demanded the following from seller: A disclosure statement and fix issues found in inspection that will be a problem with VA and with me.
Im paying cash for: inspection of structure, sewer line scope, radon mold lead paint etc etc, survey with existing boundrys marked and pinned. I was told this was unusual and I'm incuring additional expenses but "OK go ahead". Here's the kicker haha before I finish the deal my attorney has to give it his OK then they get my final John Hancock thats in an addendum. So if your patient and do things right your a wet blanket? Too bad I would never buy real estate without due diligence. Bank and realtor have attempted to get me to do everything on line I declined nope it's a sit down with me so what if closing takes 40 days instead of 23. Yep were living in a different age and time.
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