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 Replies: 143 / Views: 11,865 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1970 Posts |
Today the USM posted PRESALE pricing for four of the USMC 250th Ann'y Commemoratives:
Proof Half: $56.00; UNC Half: $54.00
Proof SD: $91.00; UNC SD: $89.50
" Even a clock that's stopped is right twice a day. "
Edited by cptbilly
12/31/2024 10:38 pm
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Moderator
 United States
188877 Posts |
Thank you for sharing.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2627 Posts |
Quote:
Today the USM posted pricing for four of the USMC 250th Ann'y Commemoratives:
Proof Half: $56.00; UNC Half: $54.00
Proof SD: $91.00; UNC SD: $89.50 Hold up. Is the Mint being serious with those prices?  Let's take a look at those 2025 introductory prices vs. the 2024 introductory prices:  Remember, the Mint claimed that price increases for clad products were "due to rising material and labor costs," a.k.a. inflation. But the annual inflation rate for the past 12 months was 2.7%. I'd be willing to give the Mint a pass for a 3% or 4% increase. Maybe, just maybe, begrudgingly 5%. But an average price increase of 14%? Absolutely not. And yes, for the dollar coins, silver has increased much more in the past 12 months. But the Mint's silver products are already way overpriced relative to their metal content, so further price increases aren't justified. For context, when silver peaked at $49/oz in 2011, the price of the uncirculated and proof silver dollars were $54.95 and $59.95, respectively.  At this point, the Mint is just gouging collectors.  No wonder sales for commemoratives reach new lows each year.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1970 Posts |
The quants at the Mint think the market will support those prices. They could not care less about collectors. They are the only game in town so they get to dictate the rules of the game.
They don't care if affordable options continue to be offered, i.e., Mint, Proof, Quarters, Innovation Dollars. Everything else is a money grab.
" Even a clock that's stopped is right twice a day. "
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1613 Posts |
2025 will be an adjustment for myself. In the past, for the last few years I've gone through the list in January adding to my subscription to ensure the different products would find their way to my collection. With the previous years increase in cost, especially those containing silver, it becomes clear that my list will be half that of previous years. Thirty plus going back to mail order before the internet. Yet I'm not like so many others complaining about the increase, which admittedly is a bit high, rather it's the long term value after the purchase. While I do not collect as an investment, I do not look to lose money either. Looking at the current prices simply does not seem logical to this fact when I'm seeing these products from a few years back selling for less on the secondary. My only real concern moving forward is watching the annual sales figures continually plummeting to some scary totals. Leaving me to wonder at what point do the low numbers change the values.
ANA member - PAN Member - BCCS Member There are no problems only solutions - the late, great John Lennon
Edited by Ballyhoo
01/01/2025 12:12 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12840 Posts |
I'm with you, @Ballyhoo. I have slashed my annual purchases from the mint down to 1 each of most of the annual sets and one each of the ASE offerings. As the prices continue to soar, I may exit the game altogether and focus on other areas of numismatics. At what point does the Mint realize its customers are fleeing like rats from a sinking ship? To @cptbilly's point perhaps they just don't care about the collector base. However I can't see the seignorage from circ coins keeping them afloat for many more years. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4593 Posts |
If you look at the summary level money as reported in the annual reports of the director of the mint, it looks like things are wonderful. https://sfpreview.usmint.gov/conten...l-Report.pdfPut on your happy face and read along on pages 24 & 25. Quote:
NUMISMATIC RESULTS
Numismatic product sales decreased to 3.3 million units in FY 2023 compared to 4.6 million units in FY 2022. The largest driver was decreased sales volume in the annual core sets followed by the silver coin product category. Annual core sets product sales were 48.9 percent less than last year followed by Silver coin product sales, which were 10.4 percent less than last year. The large decrease in annual core sets was due to the lower demand for the 2023 Silver Proof Set and 2023 Proof Set compared to the 2022 versions. In addition, the 2021 and 2022
Uncirculated Coin Sets were issued during FY 2022 while the 2023 version has not yet been issued. In addition, the gold, platinum, and palladium unit sales were 7.0 percent lower than last year. Sales of the 2023 American Eagle Gold Proof four-coin set was above the 2022 version and the 2023 American Buffalo One Ounce Gold Proof
coin was below the 2022 version.
Numismatic revenue ended the year below FY 2022. FY 2023 numismatic revenue was $459.5 million, a $99.9 million (17.9 percent) decrease compared to FY 2022.
The 2023 American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof and the 2023 Morgan Silver Proof Dollar were the most popular sellers (in terms of units) this year, selling a combined 746.0 thousand units.
The unit sales for 2023 American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof and the 2022 United States Mint Proof Set were below the number of items shipped for 2022 versions. The 2023 Mint Proof Set has not been issued and the 2022 version was issued in 2022 but spilled over into early 2023. Gold and platinum numismatic products generated the largest share of revenue (46.3 percent) during FY 2023 compared to FY 2022. This category generated $212.6 million in numismatic revenue compared to $246.9 million revenue generated by the other categories.
Net Income for FY 2023 decreased 38.9 percent compared to FY 2022. Although the annual recurring sets category recorded a $7.9 million net loss in FY 2023, FY 2023 numismatic net margin was positive, decreasing to 17.2 percent from 23.1 percent in FY 2022. FY 2023 numismatic COGS decreased 15.5 percent by $54.0 million, driven by the decrease in unit sales. SG&A expenses increased by 5.6 percent this year. Yes, volumes are down, but margins are way better than 2019 and 2020. Still made $79.1m. -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12840 Posts |
Quote:
Numismatic product sales decreased to 3.3 million units in FY 2023 compared to 4.6 million units in FY 2022 That is a 28% drop. I don't care how some sales director is spinning stats, those are bad numbers. They can jack the prices all they want to help the margins, but when it gets too high, those prices multiplied times zero sales... bye bye numismatic branch. They're pricing people out every year with drastic declines in sales ("demand") as a result. It is unsustainable. One wonders what the FY 24 numbers are going to look like. edit: typos Edited by CelticKnot
01/01/2025 11:53 pm
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Moderator
United States
188877 Posts |
I am not sure what I will get getting this year other than the annual sets I get on subscription.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
26181 Posts |
I'll be getting three each of the ASE Proof W and S and the ASE Uncirculated W. I have every year of the Silver Proof Set but this may be the year that I stop. I will wait and see what the ASE military coins look like. My American Silver Eagle collection http://goccf.com/t/448125My random silver coin collection http://goccf.com/t/449270My MS-70 silver coin collection https://goccf.com/t/490829My dragon silver coin collection https://goccf.com/t/490859 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5618 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5618 Posts |
The times are a Changin......
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12840 Posts |
Quote:I'll be getting three each of the ASE Proof W and S and the ASE Uncirculated W. I used to get two of each; down to one. What about the privy mark ASEs? 3 each as well? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
26181 Posts |
I used to get six of each of those I mentioned, CelticKnot. Last year I went down to three each.
I have always bought three of every coin and set because my collection will go to my three children.
My American Silver Eagle collection http://goccf.com/t/448125My random silver coin collection http://goccf.com/t/449270My MS-70 silver coin collection https://goccf.com/t/490829My dragon silver coin collection https://goccf.com/t/490859 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
26181 Posts |
Hello, Mike. I'm very curious about the ASE military coins. Will they just have some type of logo privy mark or maybe a different design on the reverse? I can't wait to see them. |
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Posted 12/31/2024 4:53 pm
