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Post Your Papal States Coins - Reverse Chronological Schedule By Ruler

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Bacchus2's Avatar
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 Posted 03/19/2025  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's some great extra information about the Papal legates - and very useful to see all three reverse types together like that. Thanks for going to all the extra effort.

Any time I've seen a St. George spearing a dragon he's always been on a horse. That's the only thing I can think of here.
Edited by Bacchus2
03/19/2025 3:41 pm
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Dearborn's Avatar
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HondoB's Avatar
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 Posted 03/19/2025  10:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HondoB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Any time I've seen a St. George spearing a dragon he's always been on a horse. That's the only thing I can think of here.

Yes, always on horseback. And the dragon must be dead here if George is standing on it.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Dearborn's Avatar
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 Posted 03/20/2025  09:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Any time I've seen a St. George spearing a dragon he's always been on a horse. That's the only thing I can think of here.
Huh, I never knew that. Something to pay attention to in the future.
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 03/20/2025  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Any time I've seen a St. George spearing a dragon he's always been on a horse. That's the only thing I can think of here.


Exactly!
Think of the UK, Australian and Canadian sovereigns, the Mansfeld thalers, and some other Ferrara Papal coins we will see here (not to mention a whole lot of artworks). St. George is always on horseback in western Christian iconography.

Usually the saint who stands atop a vanquished serpent or dragon is Saint Michael, but -- being an archangel -- Michael has wings.

Possibly the engraver was just tired of making coins with the traditional representation ... like this 1709 Ferrara coin of 26 quattrini:
Post-Your-Papal-States-Coins---Reverse-Chronological-Schedule-By-Ruler
Post-Your-Papal-States-Coins---Reverse-Chronological-Schedule-By-Ruler
I have no idea why this coin was valued at 26 quattrini. In the Papal currency system, 5 quattrini = 1 baiocco; 100 baiocco = 1 scudo, so this coin is the equivalent of 5.2 baioccos. Maybe like Bacchus2 said earlier, it was a form of oneupmanship since the grosso which was being struck in Rome was the equivalent of 5 baioccos, so this type would be just slightly more valuable?
Edited by tdziemia
03/20/2025 12:46 pm
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 03/20/2025  10:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice example, tdziemia.
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 Posted 03/21/2025  04:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh wow - that 1709 Ferrara coin of 26 quattrini is fantastic. I didn't know that existed. Definitely one on my list to watch our for.

26 quattrini is definitely an odd denomination. It reminds me of the British guinea which was tariffed at 21 shillings. While this was initially a correcting measure against fluctuating gold prices it became a useful unit in horse trading (and still is). Then other examples are the 1/32 Birr from Ethiopia or 1/24 thaler from some German states which all seem to be linked to precious metal standards.

So that might lead to two other reasons, value against a gold (or silver) standard, or some sort of useful accounting purpose.

But regardless of the reason behind it it's still a really great coin.

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 Posted 03/21/2025  04:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My last coin of Benedict XIII is this 1726 1/2 Bolognino from the Bologna mint. This coin has a very odd placement of the date. The lion is depicted as rampant with the lion standing on its hind legs, with its forepaws raised as if attacking, making the date placement at an angle.


Post-Your-Papal-States-Coins---Reverse-Chronological-Schedule-By-Ruler
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 03/21/2025  08:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another great coin!
It also reminds me of spence's comment upthread on his earlier Bologna quattrino (1741) not referring to the reigning pope, and carrying only city emblems rather than Papal ones (this additional denomination worth about 3 quattrinos has a Bologna coat of arms and the Bologna lion).
I know these coins are cataloged as Papal States, but I wonder if there is a story there, since they do not fit the design "norm" of carrying the papal arms.

My last coin of the 18th century is a companion to the last one I posted, this 1709 coin of 13 quattrinos (same design, just smaller):
Post-Your-Papal-States-Coins---Reverse-Chronological-Schedule-By-Ruler
Post-Your-Papal-States-Coins---Reverse-Chronological-Schedule-By-Ruler

Edited by tdziemia
03/21/2025 08:54 am
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 03/21/2025  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice additions, Bacchus2, and tdziemia.
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Bacchus2's Avatar
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 Posted 03/22/2025  03:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another great coin tdziemia. I'm really liking those odd denominations.
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 Posted 03/22/2025  1:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Starting tomorrow we drop back to the 17th century. I think the 30-40 year slices have been progressing pretty well, so let's see if that continues to work:

Innocent XII (1691-1700)
Alexander VIII (1689-1691) (breaking up the run of Benedicts,
Clements and Innocents
Innocent XI (1676-1689)
Clement X (1670-1676)

See ya tomorrow
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