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Replies: 794 / Views: 40,675 |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Quote: Question - when was the first recorded Pope? The administrative institutions of the Holy See (the Roman Curia) maintain the records / list of who held this office. It is reckoned that St Peter was the first though what physical records of the earlier popes exist is hard to say. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes
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Moderator
 United States
96800 Posts |
interesting Bacc! thanks.
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
7953 Posts |
Wow! What a great quattrino. So much detail crammed onto such a small coin, and great state of preservation, as it's usually clear that quattrinos were the most heavily circulated (or maybe just the most hastily struck) type. That unusual shaped shield for the coat of arms is often just described as decagonal, but I have also seen it called "horsehead shaped" which I really like. It was common in central Italy in the late 15th and early 16th centuries, and could be 8-, 9- or 10-sided: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces462775.html As for the sequence of popes, as pointed out by Bacchus2, originally the popes were the bishops of Rome (Peter being the first) and leaders of the Catholic church (eventually just the Western branch). So there is a line back to Peter in the first half of the 1st century that I think is fairly well-documented. Later, as discussed at the top of the thread, they also became sovereigns, just like any other medieval king or duke, and still are today (Vatican City).
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Moderator
 United States
96800 Posts |
thank you tdz! 
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Many thanks tdziemia for that extra background on the shield shape - very interesting. The obverse of that coin is really very well preserved and the reverse is too though my photo perhaps doesn't highlight that well. I think I might be on my own now to post a few more. (I also have some that I should have posted earlier but perhaps I can add those on at the end. Today I can post this one. It's issued under Martin V 1417-1431 at the Papal enclave in southern France - Comtat Venaissin - and minted at Avignon. The obverse shows a mitre atop two "P" with a column between. The column is the symbol of the Colonna family which is that of Martin V. The reverse has a Cross with mitre and keys repeated in alternation The denomination is a 1/4 Groschen. 
Edited by Bacchus2 05/03/2025 01:11 am
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Moderator
 United States
96800 Posts |
nice add Bacc! 
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74533 Posts |
Nice addition, Bacchus2!
Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
7953 Posts |
NIce example! I think we are now back to a point in time where the only Papal issues are from the Comtat Venaissin (at least that's what I find when I do a sort by date on the "Papal States" section in Numista). It looks like Paul II (1464-1471) was the first pope in about 500 years to strike coins on the Italian peninsula. For reasons I don't completely understand, there were Papal coins struck in Rome from the late 8th century to the late tenth, then none till Paul II, though Comtat Venaissin appears to have been striking coins since the late 1200s.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
While Numista is a fantastic resource - and the amount of detail on it is outstanding - it can be a bit tricky to navigate and search on for older material at times - especially when coverage is not complete. The next coin I have was apparently minted in Rome - it's a ND (1370-1377) 1 Bolognino issued under Gregory XI. The obverse legend reads GG . PP . VND (Facing bust wearing triregnum) but I'm not entirely sure what all the letters stand for (PP being for Pater Patriae of course). The reverse lettering (+. DE ROMA) at least makes the mint clear. 
Edited by Bacchus2 05/04/2025 07:54 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74533 Posts |
Nice coin, Bacchus2. 
Errers and Varietys.
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
21620 Posts |
Bacchus2 That is a skill in itself in numismatics being able to identify some of those medievel and Roman coins. I would not know where to start if I was handed one to ID.
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5174 Posts |
Quote: The obverse legend reads GG . PP . VND (Facing bust wearing triregnum) but I'm not entirely sure what all the letters stand for I'd expect GG for Gregorius, PP for Papa (not sure of that one), and VND for Undecimo = 11th. I've been told that this mess of a coin is from Comtat Venaissin, but it's too far gone to determine the specific pope (or at least the photos don't allow it). Hopefully I'll find it and get some better pics when/if I get back to Moscow in a few weeks. 
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Quote: That is a skill in itself in numismatics being able to identify some of those medievel and Roman coins. The trick is to know what should be there before you even look for it.  Quote: I've been told that this mess of a coin is from Comtat Venaissin A challenging identification indeed.
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Moderator
 United States
188952 Posts |
Nice examples! 
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
7953 Posts |
Quote: ND (1370-1377) 1 Bolognino issued under Gregory XI. Great coin ... which exposes the mistake I made in my search on earliest Papal coins struck in Italy the second millenium  Early 1300s.
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Replies: 794 / Views: 40,675 |