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 Replies: 18 / Views: 2,416 |
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New Member
Australia
49 Posts |
Over the past few years there have been a number of Australia 5 cent coins with a double obverse and rotated bust of QEII and having unequal dates 1994/1998 and 1993/1998 (see for example attached image) that have been sold through a Sydney auction house. I would be interested to learn whether these coins are of any worthwhile physical (retail) or numismatic value? Or are they just fantasies?  |
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Moderator
 Australia
16806 Posts |
It is virtually impossible to make such a coin in the mint. Obverse and reverse dies are physically different sizes so cannot be accidentally confused - it's literally a "square peg wont fit in round hole" situation. They'd basically need to design and build a brand new press, from scratch, just to make it.
And there's certainly no way a four year old obverse die could "accidentally" get inserted into the reverse position on the coin press.
Occam's Razor says that it is almost certain that these coins are therefore either (a) counterfeits, or (b) cleverly made magician coins (where you take perfectly normal coins, grind one coin down until it's wafer thin, then hollow out the second coin using a lathe to make a shallow cup-shape, and then fit the thin remnant of the first coin inside the hole). In either case, I would be surprised if a reputable coin auction house carried them.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2500 Posts |
The LH image rim at 12k to 1k looks suspect too.
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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New Member
 Australia
49 Posts |
Edited by frank wasson
06/11/2025 04:19 am
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Moderator
Australia
16806 Posts |
There's an awful lot of "impossible mint errors" there - like that one struck over a 1976 aluminium Vietnamese coin.
I'd strongly suspect outright counterfeits, rather than "mint sports". And now I'm wondering if "Vietnam" is a clue as to their origin.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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New Member
Australia
49 Posts |
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Moderator
Australia
16806 Posts |
You mean number 11213 on your previous link? Well, it's like what I would expect a brockage to look like. The only query would be, for me, it's association with all those other "iimpossible errors", all from the mid-1990s, all in the exact same state of preservation.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
I'd argue that RAM was perhaps more laid back in 1990s. This also coincides when the Australian economy was not doing very well. It would not be strange for some rouge employees to strike some fancy mint sports to make a few extra bucks. A lot of these unusual errors that I have seen are from early 1990s. There was a pretty interesting error coin sold by IAG https://www.independentcoinnews.com/April_2025.pdfAustralia 1992 2 dollars overstruck over Philippines 10 sentimo. That went for 4,500! https://www.pcgs.com/cert/49635133 |
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New Member
Australia
49 Posts |
I strongly lean towards the assessment made in the previous post by "gxseries". I suspect that somebody with sufficient authority, security clearances and sufficient technical & engineering know how at RAM took some liberties during their lunch break, if I can put it that way. I also noticed that many of these "impossible mint errors" are from the 1990's, but they definitely don't appear to be counterfeits or magician coins. While picking up my two winnings earlier in the week at the auction house that sold these error coins I had a chance to physically inspect one of two passed 1994/1998 double headed coins and the coin appeared bona fide at least to me. I bought a couple of 1990's error coins from this auction house last year and PCGS had no problem in positively assessing them see https://www.pcgs.com/cert/54887300 and https://www.pcgs.com/cert/54887301Lastly, I very much look forward to what the contributor of an article in https://www.independentcoinnews.com/April_2025.pdf has to say about these very coins (see page 47) that are being sold through this auction house. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1039 Posts |
Quote:Lastly, I very much look forward to what the contributor of an article in https://www.independentcoinnews.com/April_2025.pdf has to say about these very coins (see page 47) that are being sold through this auction house. Thanks for link,interesting article. |
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New Member
Australia
49 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
That battery coin went way more than what I expected!!! I am more surprised that the inner core or anode didn't leak out!
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Moderator
United States
187702 Posts |
I fixed a few broken links in this topic. Do not put parentheses around links because the forum software likes to append the closing parenthesis to the link.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
I had a think of this double Obverse error coin. The combination of 1998 / 1994 is pretty odd at best. How this occurred is more strange than striking over any coin or foreign object.
1998 would have been a much better economy. To find coin die that's 4 years old from storage is pretty odd. Why not 1997? Why 1994? Why strike in coin alignment?
More questions arise...
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New Member
Australia
49 Posts |
I think as John Belcher remarked, and as I suspect, these mint sports were most likely produced in the RAM workshop where they make and test dies. Obviously some parties had sufficient authority, back in the day, to lay their hands on select (5 cent and perhaps other unrevealed) dies and had the technical know how to produce these fantasies. I also feel the 1993/1998 & 1994/1998 pairings were probably just convenient random selections with regards to dates. You may also notice in these (sold and unsold) lots https://www.statusint.com/result_coins.php?id=34 that the 1993, 1994 and the 1998 QEII 5 cent obverse appears several times on other coins such as the Cook Island error, the Vietnam error, the interrupted milling error, the one cent planchet error.... These I know all came from one vendor. Edited by frank wasson
06/18/2025 5:41 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
One vendor... makes you wonder the connection. I smell a rat. It's quite abnormal to see a huge batch appearing out of the blue.
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Replies: 18 / Views: 2,416 |
Posted 06/11/2025 01:35 am
