| Author |
 Replies: 14 / Views: 668 |
|
|
Valued Member
United States
91 Posts |
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
2115 Posts |
. . Uncertified 
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
91 Posts |
Uncertified. Yes and I like them that way.
|
|
Moderator
United States
34393 Posts |
Quote:
The reverse crater holes worry me but he never sells bad stuff. I agree that you should be concerned as there may be some bronze disease in there. With a normal denarius, I wouldn't worry because the metal is silver. You know this is a fourree, right? I'd love for you to post pics of the coin when you have it in hand. Until then, here are a couple screen shots from the auction for people to review:  "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
|
|
Valued Member
United States
91 Posts |
I would love to see what others say
Edited by newtraffic2
01/31/2026 9:49 pm
|
|
Moderator
Australia
16806 Posts |
The ebay seller has (honestly and correctly) described this coin as a fouree in the auction listing. A fouree is a term used to describe an ancient counterfeit. In other words, it is not a genuine ancient Roman coin, but it is a genuinely ancient counterfeit, an antiquity made by an ancient counterfeiter 2000 years ago and worthy of collecting and study in its own right. Very often, the only way to tell that an ancient coin is a fouree is if there has been some damage to the silver plating over the centuries and corrosion has begun in the underlying base-metal core, as has happened here. A better-made or less-well-circulated fouree might still have its silver layer intact, and thus might still be believed to be genuine unless there was some obvious stylistic wrongness about the coin overall. All this does, however, mean that you still don't, technically, have an ancient Roman coin of Caligula, though. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Moderator
United States
15386 Posts |
Quote:
it is not a genuine ancient Roman coin, but it is a genuinely ancient counterfeit Fascinating. These coins are not my field but I enjoy reading our experts views and insights. The term fourree was new to me - now I know what it means thanks to Spence and Sap.  The seller was very clear that this example was a fourree. In that way he is telling all prospective bidders that this was an ancient counterfeit. Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.artEdited by nickelsearcher
02/01/2026 06:00 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1120 Posts |
That was on my watch list. Glad to see someone in the community nabbed it. I wouldn't have any worries about authenticity on this one and it's a spectacular portrait. Congrats!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2115 Posts |
Quote:
Uncertified. Yes and I like them that way. . . . Nice uncertified ancient "counterfeit"... |
|
Valued Member
United States
216 Posts |
I don't like the damage to the coin, but if it's a rare/expensive coin in my field (hammered medievals), it wouldn't stop me.
I also actively pursue counterfeits in my field, modern and contemporary. The contemporary counterfeits are more rare than the real thing, so as a specialist, I would jump on it.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2115 Posts |
Quote:
The contemporary counterfeits are more rare than the real thing, so as a specialist, I would jump on it. $900+ counterfeit, "More Rare", so are the 1886-O China Morgans, would you pay $100 for it? |
|
Valued Member
United States
216 Posts |
Quote:
$900+ counterfeit, "More Rare", so are the 1886-O China Morgans, would you pay $100 for it? I don't know valuations for Romans, so I don't know if that's a fair price. Chinese counterfeits are modern, not contemporary. Maybe contemporary (i.e., circulating) Roman counterfeits are more common and thus cheaper, but for the medievals I collect, I would pay those prices. They're invaluable for research in an area of numismatics for which there are no primary references. |
|
Moderator
Australia
16806 Posts |
As a "circulating counterfeit", it almost certainly would have been made during Caligula's lifetime; the whole point of a circulating counterfeit is to create a coin that looks perfectly normal and non-suspicious. After Caligula's death, he was considered a "bad emperor" by successors and so his silver coins would have been withdrawn and destroyed, leaving few of them in circulation. Handing over a Caligula coin during the reign of Claudius or Nero would have at least earned the coin a closer inspection by the recipient - which was exactly what a counterfeiter wouldn't have wanted to have happen while they were trying to spend their fake. So, logically, this fouree does actually date from some time around AD 40-42, when the genuine coins of this design would have been commonly circulating.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Moderator
Australia
16806 Posts |
Re: slabbing / certification: as it is not a genuine coin, I don't believe the slabbing companies will slab or certify it.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2213 Posts |
NGC grades/slabs a lot of ancient coins. They do grade/slab fouree and label them as such.
Some like to collect fouree or modern counterfeits. It's interesting to have a few counterfeits to learn and show others why they are fake, as long as you buy them knowing they are fake and don't pay high price as if genuine.
I have an Athens tetradrachm fouree and a Domition denarius fouree. The reason some Athens tetradrachms have test cuts was to see if they were real silver under the surface.
I don't buy graded ancient coins. I enjoy holding them raw.
Edited by livingwater
02/01/2026 10:56 pm
|
| |
Replies: 14 / Views: 668 |
|
Posted 01/31/2026 9:14 pm
