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Help With Metal Detecting Find

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Coinage123's Avatar
United Kingdom
449 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2010  1:31 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Coinage123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Was out on sunday metal detecting over my local country park which had a 12th century castle on it, I have been detecting a good half mile distance from it and I have still found hammered coins and brooches dating from the right period. Anyway, was searching a piece of woodland and suddenly got a nice signal coming from the E-Trac so in goes the spade and out pops a 15th century crotal bell from about 4-5 inches deep,as I walk away from where I found it I get another high bleep so I dug this one too. As I lifted up the clod this little metal rod is sitting there, found from the same depth as the bell and about 1/2 meter away.When I got home I gave it a good clean and it turned out to be a wooden rod wrapped in a thin sheet of copper(im sure its copper because of the way it has oxidized). As I cleaned it more I found this fine thread wrapped round the wood that goes from where it is visible to the top. I haven't a clue what this item is and would be very grateful if somebody could help me, here are the pics:

http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/1033...ind?h=5149ee

I would think the object is fairly old because of how close it was to the bell, my only doubts is the thread looks fairly modern also, the object is 9 cm long.
Thanks,
Will
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Halfwitty's Avatar
United States
1523 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2010  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halfwitty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's pretty interesting. Looks to be a handle of some sort.A piece of wood wrapped with cordage and then wrapped with copper.Maybe someone else would have a clue.An ax handle or perhaps hatchet handle but why would they wrap the handle in copper?
Valued Member
Coinage123's Avatar
United Kingdom
449 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2010  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinage123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought it was part of a arrow head but I dont think they made arrow heads out of copper.
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Tim Stroud's Avatar
United States
2661 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2010  4:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tim Stroud to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I thought it was part of a arrow head but I don't think they made arrow heads out of copper.


Not one that would still have the cordage and wood still so nicely preserved, and would have been a lot deeper also. Copper arrow heads were used for a brief period between 5000 and 6000 B.C. during the transitional period between the Neolithic and Bronze ages.

As to what the object may be is a good question. I for one would only dare to guess. I would like to know if if it was a cast one piece or a two piece bell and if the pellet is still inside?
Valued Member
Coinage123's Avatar
United Kingdom
449 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2010  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinage123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have added 3 pictures of the bell to the link at the top, to answer your question Tim, the bell has not got a makers mark and has a chunky hand drilled square at the top. I know that the 2 holes you can see near the top of the bell, known as "sound holes" were actually used for the casting process. Because the pellet that would of been inside was made of iron it has corroded away and left a horrible lump of rust inside it. Sorry that the bell is a little dirty in that one as I have not got round to cleaning it properly.
The area where I have been detecting has hardly been used for hundreds of years as the old items are not that deep at all, like I said I have been finding John I shortcross pennies from about 3-4 inches down!
Anyway, any guesses on what the item in question could be?
Edited by Coinage123
04/14/2010 7:45 pm
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Coinage123's Avatar
United Kingdom
449 Posts
 Posted 04/15/2010  7:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinage123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No one?
Rest in Peace
pls's Avatar
United States
1729 Posts
 Posted 04/15/2010  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm trying to come up with some kind of connection between this object and the bell. Maybe the bell was used on an animal, and the "handle" was used in the attachment mechanism somehow. (You find more interesting stuff that I do, for sure. Unless you think that galvanized roofing nails are interesting.)
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Coinage123's Avatar
United Kingdom
449 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  04:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinage123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Unless you think that galvanized roofing nails are interesting.

Its just the locations that bring you the good finds, I'm just fairly lucky to have a park 5 mins down the road which has a finds period of 11th century to modern day, it was just lucky the piece of woodland I picked had hardly been touched and I found not a single ring pull.
Rest in Peace
pls's Avatar
United States
1729 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  09:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess it's all in our philosophies of where good hunting is. I live in a city, so unless I take a day trip, I'm limited to my surroundings. The good news in my case is that I've found two wheaties and a Standing Liberty quarter, plus more modern coins, close to the sidewalk in my front yard on ground over which I've walked hundreds and perhaps thousands of times in the 22 years that I've lived here. The roofing nails came from my house being re-roofed and a demolished garage; I had to use a metal detector to find and remove them before someone (like me) found them in vehicle tires. (Next time I have a roof torn off, I will stipulate that a magnetic drag be used as part of the process - warning to anyone else on the forum who is contemplating roof work or a building tear-down on their property). The most unusual object I've found on my property (including on the grounds of the rental house next door that I own) was an eight-foot dog chain with clips on both ends. Or maybe the late-date Lincoln Memorial Cents flung randomly about by one of my renters' kids - terribly corroded after only about ten years in the ground (the wheaties and SLQ were in perfect condition).

In other words, you have quality antique items in your area - I have quantity to go for in mine. I do have an elementary school just down the block which I've partially searched, but I have to go there on weekends only. Don't want to be arrested for being a creepy old guy prowling the grounds with a soil knife and a long thing that beeps ...
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Coinage123's Avatar
United Kingdom
449 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinage123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ive put up a pic on the same link above with just a few of the finds from this particular park, I does also help being part of a society, I myself are part of one that gives you access to more/historic locations(I do think the reason I got in was because the owner of the society wanted a go of the E-Trac!) I'm going to the monthly meeting tonight and will see if any of them can shed some light on this object, will keep you updated.
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  12:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, I ought to get in on this metal detecting! You find some curious items there! What's that round object that looks like a compass?

How far apart did you find each item? (How related to each other are they?) I'm trying to think like an archaeologist here.
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Coinage123's Avatar
United Kingdom
449 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinage123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The compass like object is a No.199 fuse from a AA gun dates from 1942 the pieces of rough metal are dials and shrapnel from the shell.The coins in the plastic sleeves are shortcross pennies. they were all found in a large radius of the park(if you type in Trent park country park on google maps you can view it.)
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting pieces.

The tubular item is not anything to do with arrowheads or spears, I collect neolithic so know a bit about it. The UK bronze age is a lot younger than Tim stated (its about 2750BC to 750BC) but even so no type of twine would have survived.

The only reason the wood would have been wrapped is to protect it, either from the elements or from forces against it during use or for an ornate reason.

I have two ideas:

It was part of a walking stick, either the tip end and wrapped to protect it from the elements or from an ornate piece of the shaft. No idea of age.

Second and I think more likely is that its the handle of a babies rattle - this would explain the bell you found nearby.

These were quite common from 1700 to 1900 and although most had bone or ivory handles the cheaper ones would have had decorated or wrapped wood.

Some just had bells tied to the end and others had a ball on the end filled with loose bells.

Do either of those sound likely?



Edited by bobbyhelmet
04/16/2010 1:15 pm
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  1:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately cant find a more suitable picture but this will give you an idea.

Help-With-Metal-Detecting-Find

These are the 'Rolls Royces' of rattles for royalty and the super rich - your bits could have came from a working class one.
Rest in Peace
pls's Avatar
United States
1729 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
bobby, I have a feeling that my LMC's and your baby rattle theory are closely related - I can just imagine a kid going "whee!" with both and neither been seen again until we found them with metal detectors.
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep - thank god for kids and careless people or we would have nothing to find.

Must admit I've often wondered how there are so many Roman coins found? I dont believe the theory of hyper-inflation and surely they cant all be careless losses. I know some were buried on purpose but they are found all over the UK in large numbers - I found one on top of Englands highest mountain, Scarfell Pike! Maybe its naughty Roman kids!
Edited by bobbyhelmet
04/16/2010 5:28 pm
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