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The Seven Topics Of VAMming That Merit No Discussion

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VAMsforMoney's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 12/18/2010  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VAMsforMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"These are the seven topics. What happens after Leroy is gone?"

Nobody knows for sure it seems. The "hobby" is Leroy's. It is for him to decide. Does he leave it to his wife? Does he leave it for the SSDC? Does he will it to Jeff Oxman or John Roberts?

OZ, nobody knows, as far as I can tell.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 12/18/2010  11:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, but we're human. We speculate. It's the only reason ESPN and CNN stay in business - talking heads.

I will throw this out, though - what if Leroy Van Allen is considering our words?
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VAMsforMoney's Avatar
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 Posted 12/18/2010  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VAMsforMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SuperDave: Not sure what you mean. If you are implying that Leroy looks at this forum, then I am so new that I must have missed some conversation on this topic. I doubt he would be swayed by a board discussion however.
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VAMsforMoney's Avatar
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 Posted 12/18/2010  11:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VAMsforMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"These are the seven topics. What suggestions would you make to grow the hobby?"

This is a tough one. First, I think the SSDC should actually offer something meaningful for the cost of membership.

Second, ban Registery Sets. They cause dysfunctional behavior on a number of different levels.

Third, I think there needs to be regional VAM clubs. I think the SSDC could be instrumental in this, but leadership has been lacking.
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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2010  11:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nice to have you here Vamsformoney, AS SD points out, the question is about the knowledge of vamming, and of course there is a collectors side and a sellers side of the story, and as any collector of any item would need to know, is they are not being taken by over hyped items of unknown quantities which do represent the presentations of pricing....
While knowledge may be king it is also supressed knowledge and true known numbers of said items which reflect true value..and its not something that in any market depending on what level you you operate at, retail or the whole sale side, in the old days it could have been Red Book VS blue book....today the GREY SHEET , and my meaning is that they represent a true value at present despite what level you operate at, and its NOT at 1000% markup because a common coin R5 is on "some list", and that you can't sell it for.what you paid.....THERE IS a balance like any other business operates at(or percentage)....
AND the one MAJOR POINT is its still evolving...even the flaws within the system are being systematicaly, though slowly changed as a major upheaval will not support anyone, but rather tear down the work that has been done already.....
To the question , if Leyor reaads these threrads we post, who knows, but we do, and like ZEE say's if every onbe would post the coins the have, even the MOST COMMON ONES, with pictures to show what is common, even the small pinpoints or die poop... is much better than a typed description..... its going to take ALL OUR EFFORTS...to continue to upgrade and INFORM us of these points....
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 12/18/2010  11:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I doubt he looks at this place, but I'd be surprised if he didn't read VAMworld.

As least as far as goes the "Leroy question," it's actually twofold. First, who owns the rights to the term into the future? It is a property, one with value. In my opinion, we lack the right to speculate regarding that, and I don't think anybody is, anyways.

Second, more importantly, what person/persons will make determinations of new VAM's going forward? There are, I believe, good reasons to believe that some do not have altruistic motives about VAMming. My opinion is hardly isolated. I would be very surprised if Mr. Van Allen is unaware of this dynamic in the hobby he practically created himself.

Swayed by the discussion? Of course not. Seeking information about who is who and what is what in the hobby? Most likely.

Hypothetical: Let us assume that SSDC is the organization most likely to be vested with responsibility for designating VAMs into the future. I believe such an organization makes the best sense.

But what if (a situation I must say I do_not believe to be true) SSDC is dominated by dealers, high-end collectors and those who have a vested interest in keeping prices high (to sell) and information low (to cherrypick). Would a group of this type be the right choice to bear responsibility for the future of VAMming? Of course not.

Big decisions require diligent study, and Mr. Van Allen serves as a pretty good example of one who understands the importance of study. There's no doubt in my mind that he's studying the personalities involved in VAMming as closely as he's studying the coins themselves.

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VAMsforMoney's Avatar
United States
220 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2010  12:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VAMsforMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"These are the seven topics. The uneasy dealer/ collector symbiosis."

This one seems easy. Vammers steal from dealers. Or at least that seems how we think of it. Would a dealer recognize a 1955 DDO Lincoln Cent? Most likely. Would a dealer recognize a 1878-P V44? Maybe not.

Dealers distrust Vammers, because their view is that Vammers get something for nothing. Most Vammers seem to understand the disdain that many dealers (not all) hold for them. However, Vammers just don't seem to appreciate how hard it is to be a coin dealer, let alone get cherrypicked. How would hobbiests feel if they got cherrypicked by a Vammer who knew more than they did?
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aladinslamp's Avatar
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3076 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2010  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
YES.........how it goes both ways....but in truth both are playing the same game just on different marketing tables....more on that in a minute...
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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 12/19/2010  12:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess the thing is, there has been a new game in town but only with few players....and most players don't have the CASH...to play the 1955 DDO game which those who do have the money to spend the cash.......SO who is right?....Those AM pennies still draw money but to "WHO?not to the masses....and they can't be sold to the masses.....only to the "ELITE" who have the who's who of collections.......
NOW while t he seller may think...YOU JUST TOOK ME....the thing is its only true on so few coins......3 days ago I
" watched a 1878 VAM 44A ANACS 45 sell for about 850...a supposed $2500 coin....but did he cherry pick it or buy it, and try to go for the gold.....and lost his ARSE?another 1904-0 vam35A retail 300 MS coin sell for
$38 dollars? but it did.....
The thing is.........there is a real tendency to think "ITS A VAM" and now the GOLD WILL COME......as most of us know....its not true on the general scale.....
one thing I must say is I do like your participation here
New Member
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 Posted 12/19/2010  12:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vumfinder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How many of the newly dlsted board of directors of the SSDC are not VAM dealers? Roberts is the only one I can think of that does not publicly sell.
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VAMsforMoney's Avatar
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220 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2010  12:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VAMsforMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"These are the seven topics. How many VAM collectors are there?"

Nobody knows. Speculation suggests as few as a few hundred, to over a thousand. The area I live in has about 8 Vammers as far as I know. I do not personally know them all, but have gleamed some idea from the coin dealers in the area. The metropolitan area is roughly 3 million folks.

I will say this. If CoinWorld carries a monthly "All About VAMs" column, we might all be surprised by the number.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 12/19/2010  01:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How many of the newly dlsted board of directors of the SSDC are not VAM dealers? Roberts is the only one I can think of that does not publicly sell.


Not necessarily an indictment, in and of itself.


Quote:
"These are the seven topics. How many VAM collectors are there?"

Nobody knows. Speculation suggests as few as a few hundred, to over a thousand.


Patience. We're manufacturing them here at CCF as fast as we can.

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United States
5 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2010  01:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vumfinder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, so here are the uncontested new officers of the SSDC. How many of them are dealers? I really don't care if they sell, but it does have an impact on what the motivations of the ssdc board will be. Seems like most of these folks will be bringing the same point of view to the round table. If some of the names look familiar, they should. Many of these folks contribute to the retail guide.

December 15, 2010 Volume 7, Issue 21


Election Notice
The candidates up for SSDC offices or director positions are:

President: John Baumgart
Vice President: Brian Raines
Treasurer: Mike Andrew
Membership Chair: Brent Fogelberg
Director: Mark Witkower
Director: Jeff Oxman
Director: John Roberts
Director: Logan McKechnie
Director: Grant Hobika
Director: Eric Justice
Director: Phil Perdue
Director: John Coxe
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VAMsforMoney's Avatar
United States
220 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2010  01:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VAMsforMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"These are the seven topics. Are my Vams really worth that much?"

Likely the answer is NO. The question in my mind is what is "worth that much"?

Can you pick a VAM for $30 and sell it for $50? Maybe, okay probably if you know what you are doing.

Can you pick a VAM for $30 and sell it for $2,000? Depends. First, you have to find a rare and uncommon VAM with no problems, then get it holdered in PCGS plastic, then find someone who chases Registery Sets who needs it.

Otherwise, Vamming for money is generally a losing proposition from my experience.

I always look at my purchases as if they are only worth bullion at the end of the day.

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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2010  01:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I CAN't ?BELIEVE THIS.............yea we are manufacturing ALL OF THIS ON THIS SITE.....you can bank on our questions as it means SPEND YOUR MONEY....ITS CHRISTMAS......GET real......that's the sort of thing I would expect........ to diminish the efforts of those who have questions..not to diminish Vams, but rather to underdstand them in more detail..dispite figureing out the retail end of things.......
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