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Does Anyone Here Not Even Want To Deal In/With Gold?

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barryg's Avatar
United States
5862 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2011  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why do some people avoid gold? Well, speaking just for myself, I avoided it for years because it always seems like a really bad investment! Other than a big, temporary spike in 1980, the value of gold remained pretty steady for the next 25 years or so (which happens to be the time I was in a position to buy some).

Sure, if you're afraid banks could fail and the economy could crash at any time, gold has always been a great way to maintain the value of your investment. But if you're not worried about that, sticking your money in the bank -- even at only 2-3% interest per year -- would have grown your investment far more than gold during that period.

Now, of course, who knows? Had I bought gold 20 years ago (or even 5 years ago), I'd be sitting pretty right now. And maybe it's still a good time to buy and gold will keep going up until it hits $3000 or more. Or perhaps we're heading for another crash and any gold I buy now at $1800/oz will only be worth $600/oz in a few weeks, or months or years.

Either way, I think people avoid gold as an investment because historically it hasn't performed that well and they still think the government is sound and the economy will eventually pick up.

Of course, I've avoid investing in the stock market for the same reason I've avoided investing in gold, so what do I know?
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cfibaker's Avatar
United States
46 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2011  08:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cfibaker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"Two words. Not Now."


Two words. Same here. I am not sure what to think.
Whenever I look at something that looks like this I get utterly scared:

Does-Anyone-Here-Not-Even-Want-To-Deal-In/With-Gold?

I believe there is a serious hype about Gold due to our terrible economic condition.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am politically independent for the most part, but when I hear people like Glenn Beck advocating for anything, I stop and think. When I am done thinking I turn 180 degrees, think some more and then I think some extra. Then I think some for grandma and grandpa. Currently, I see gold prices as artificially inflated and the same seems to happen for Silver. It's the big investors who make a buck with it because there is actually enough movement that they make millions off a small change.

Lets say you had bought 10 Kilo Bars in 1973 and dumped them on the market in 1980 at something over $800 you would have made a mighty dollar. You could have put your cash under your bed until 1983 just to buy back into gold and then sat tight until it hit 1000. The part of the chart after 2008 is what scares me because it looks unreal. The climb is too steep and I happen to remember my uncle who had a whole bunch of kilo bars sitting in his home safe. I was a kid, had no clue, and my eyes sparkled.

I differ between "all in" and "all out" short term speculators and those who actually bought it with the intention of having it as a long term investment. Right now there is too much movement, too many little people buying into the stuff with no realistic intention to hold on to it. So, my gut feeling tells me it's bound for a correction within a few years, because right now it's driven by fear and distrust. People's eyes will sparkle and a lot of them will cash in.

For me, Gold is a long term investment, my Uncle put it this way: "You buy it, put it away, and forget about it! You never look, you never kiss it and you don't touch it, because one day you can dump it." These days, Gold is definitely out of reach for people with little to no disposable money to invest. If I had $1700 dollars to put away right now, I'd put it in Silver, Copper or something else, even though I think Silver is overpriced, as it's the poor mans Gold. There is simply more movement than the commodity can handle right now. Buying in right now seems dumb. When too many people want it, it's time to take a step back because it's a fear driven issue. When people finally realize that the world is not going to end, things will settle, and then is the time to buy a big chunk and sit on it. Historically, our politicians ain't getting better (you can't shake hands with any of them, because you need to have both your hands on your wallet when one is around) so there is hope that the constant hypes will continue. One day it's going to pay off, if you wait today.

Does-Anyone-Here-Not-Even-Want-To-Deal-In/With-Gold?

I believe we are headed for an equal situation with copper, it's already selling at astronomical prices for those who think it's going to explode. If anything, you can benefit from people's stupidity and short breath when it comes to investments and buy into it. It's coming!
Edited by cfibaker
08/16/2011 08:27 am
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barryg's Avatar
United States
5862 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2011  08:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with everything you said, cfibaker! It's what I've been saying as well. The only problem is that I started saying it back when gold was "only" at $1300/oz and my wife wanted to buy some. Even as a short term investment, it would have been really nice to have bought some then and then be able to sell it now.

I'm still 90% sure that the gold market is going to crash any day now, but what if it hits $3000-4000 before then? I'll feel awfully stupid for not buying at $1800. Of course, I am talking about short term investment here. Like you, I refuse to believe that gold will stay this high forever and that, when the crash comes, it will stay low for a looooong time. As I said before, gold may be a great way to maintain your wealth in the face of economic insecurity, but as a long-term investment it has historically been pretty awful.
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cfibaker's Avatar
United States
46 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2011  08:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cfibaker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yup barryg, I can definitely hear you for feeling stupid for not having bought. Heck, I am suing my mom, because I wasn't born before 1973! I am not an investment guru, but when I look at charts I look for a median. You take the tops and bottoms, all the bottoms build the baseline you'd like to buy at, all the tops build the topline you'd like to sell at. Realistically, we're looking at gold in the $5-700/ oz range and silver is probably a $20/30 commodity. Buying at $40 seems dizzying and if I have to, I'll buy Silver Eagles, because they are collectibles more than they are silver coins. When I buy them, I look at what I pay for them and instantly know that I will not let them go until Silver hit's $60+ per ounce.

I'd love to hear others opinions on the subject, as I am young and just sharing my farmer smarts when it comes to this stuff.
For me, PM's are two-folded. You can buy them for yourself, or you can buy them to speculate on hypes and peoples fear.

This fear is bred by the political idiocy and who's president right now. The gold hype started when people picked up on the failing dollar and the fact that our politicians could not run a lemonade stand for more than a week without getting in trouble.
Edited by cfibaker
08/16/2011 08:43 am
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2011  7:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ASEs are a great way to buy and hold silver. They are beautiful coins with a virtually timeless design, they have the metal type, weight, and purity on them, and they are widely recognized by anyone who buys / sells silver. Their 1 oz. size makes them reasonably affordable too. I like ASEs a lot and have a couple of tubes of them in my collection. I will add more of them from time to time as well as 90% US silver coins and some bars as well.

As to gold... I'd like to own some but it always seems to be more money than I want to pay. The itty bitty gold coins can be purchased for a reasonable amount but if you go that way, the markup on the coins on a per oz. basis will eat you alive.

They say that "silver is the poor man's gold". I've heard that but would argue that poor men do not buy much silver. Instead, I prefer the following:

Gold is the money of kings.

Silver is the money of gentlemen.

Copper is the money of workers.

Debt is the money of slaves.


When you have gold, you can buy whatever you want.

When you have silver, you can buy whatever you need.

When you have copper, you can buy what you must.

When you have debt, you are owned and cannot buy
anything because you have sold your future.


Over the top? Maybe. Just making a point and spending my $0.02 worth.

Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2011  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not bad analogies, actually.
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mkfarm's Avatar
United States
667 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2011  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love charts for nothing else than they look cool.

Now so everyone knows every market will go up and down. There is no secret to this fact. If it didn't then everyone would jump into a market and get rich.

Every time the market is in a bull rush the bears start to flock warning of something bad to happen. Heck yes this market will turn that my friends I have never had a doubt.

So why all the concern about something that everyone knows will take place. What we do not know is when it will take place. Again if the market would not fall or have a risk of falling when we didn't expect it we all would just buy and get rich.

I have been hearing about the crash of the PM market for two years now. You all will get it right one of these days. Trust me it will happen. I often think those that were afraid to speculate scream the loudest for the crash. No facts just speculation on my part.

For the record if you took Glenn Becks advice since he first started his gold talk you probably could sell now and have a great retirement. Not bad for a entertainer form the radio.

So people that had too much fear to speculate lost big time.

If your new to the game are you too late? I have no clue but if you don't play you can't win. Of course I don't think anyone would dump their entire 410K or savings accounts into PM. I wouldn't and I have been buying for over 30 years.

I have no reason to believe that if you didn't buy back a few years ago when silver was under $10 that you would buy it at that price even if it hit that mark tomorrow.

I will add one other thing we the small guys really do not influence the market. If we did then the PM's would have gone crazy prior to Y2K.

My answer to the current market - do you feel lucky?
It is going to go one of two ways. SO let me ask which will you be more upset about gold hitting $2K or $1K. Silver hit $90 or $20.

Sorry - just tired about everyone now jumping on the sky is falling and why they have not did this or done that or they are going to buy the next time after the fall.

So we are all agreed GOLD & SILVER will drop in value but we do not know when that will take place.

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mkfarm's Avatar
United States
667 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2011  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BTW you may wonder what the heck I know about markets? I will be the fist to tell you not much. However everything I do every day depends on the commodities markets. The corn, grains, wheat, milk, beef and even the darn fuel I buy. I stinks when you don't control a few things in life but ty not controlling 100% of it.

You go to work and get a paycheck as long as your company doesn't close.

I start the year off in the black did everything I was suppose to do and we even had the right rain then the market falls and I am in the red. Yes in the past I have mowed entire fields because it was cheaper than harvesting. However If I was afraid to play then a lot of you just wouldn't eat, after all if we didn't take risk who would grow the food.

I deal in real life were a mere .10 cents can make or break your year. Guess right and you had a good year. Read some darn charts with lines on then you are sure to call the market wrong.
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2011  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not bad analogies, actually.

Thanks, Fredd... appreciate the comment.

@mkfarm...

Farmers are an interesting breed. Most of the ones I know are relatives in OK and ND. They are clever hard working people. They have a great deal of faith in themselves, their land, their families, and in America.

At the same time, they are very conservative yet also capable of accepting huge risks. They seldom ever have "an average year". A number of them will net $250k in a good year or be $150k in debt in a bad one. The good years allow them to pay off their equipment and other bills while the bad ones severely test their faith. They keep coming back for more, though.

Very few of them ever call it quits and sell out. That happens but not often. More often, it is the kids of the farmers who do not want to work as hard or as long who end up selling off their inherited farms.

Farmers... God bless them all. We need them desperately and they are hugely productive. In the 1920s, a farmer could feed 4-5 others. Today, that is probably closer to 50 others, maybe more. I appreciate the American farmer. We would be a MUCH poorer country but for them.
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junior e's Avatar
United States
931 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2011  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add junior e to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
cfibaker reminds me a lot of Joe316.
Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2011  7:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
cfibaker
Valued Member
BuffaloBonehead's Avatar
United States
333 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2011  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuffaloBonehead to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gold is getting scary. I think I might divest myself out of some gold holdings to try and shore up my silver.
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cfibaker's Avatar
United States
46 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2011  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cfibaker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
cfibaker reminds me a lot of Joe316.




Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Thanks, bigfredd!

cfib
Edited by cfibaker
08/17/2011 9:43 pm
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2011  11:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Not now", For you not ever as you missed the boat ;-)....

Actually Joe is big on gold, low on silver, lol....

I am glad many look at their charts an over analyze. Worry about premiums, etc., as that is more gold for me to buy....

The people running the world now, will see to it gold never looses its value again, simply for the incompetence that makes up their total being as a whole....

Back around 1400 an AGE was common at 175, an now it goes for 215 low end, 250 proof high end, so what its a bit more....

The Half Eagle I purchased close to low 400, would now bring around 600 a month later in its current condition....

Sometimes the hardest thing to find on a clear coffee table, is the item you are looking for which sets dead center right in front of your face. Like gold, it has always been there, sometimes forgotten for a bit an swept under the rug, but it never went anywhere, and I will be willing to bet it will shine brightest in the long run, as the economy continues to fall,population numbers increase, natural resources run out, current C an D grade inter-structures like dams, bridges, an Levy's crumble and so on....

Of Course if you don't invest in gold, silver is the next best thing IMO as well....


Edited by Silverhawk74
08/18/2011 12:16 am
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junior e's Avatar
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931 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2011  06:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add junior e to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry cfibaker.I had some epidurals yesterday so I was in a lousy mood.
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