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Replies: 12 / Views: 3,102 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
We've skirted the issue in other threads, but it's now time to address the subject of batteries, rechargeable batteries, and battery chargers for digital cameras. Years ago, I bought a bunch of rechargeable batteries of one size or another, mostly AAs at from $2.50 to $4 each, along with a multi-type and multiple-battery charger. This lasted for maybe two years until I lost most of the rechargeables long before the end of their service life. I decided it was more economical to buy only standard batteries which I did until recently when I bought my Canon S2 IS. When I first bought my S2 this past April, I bought a bunch of el cheapo Rayovac "Heavy Duty" AA batteries at Walmart. I quickly learned these bottom-of-the-line fresh out of the box batteries would not even power up the camera; at best, all I got was a flashing "replace batteries" message in the viewfinder. I then bought a couple 4-packs of Rayovac Maximum Plus™ which lasted me all summer (maybe 150 images plus a couple experimental "movies"). When I started serious coin photography in September, I bought a 16-pack of Energizer's best (the pink Susan B. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation) for about $10 at WallyWorld. Each group of four lasted about 100 to 150 images depending upon the resolution and compression. The higher the resolution and the less the compression, the faster the batteries were used up and I was using mostly high resolution. What I found, however, was that the "low battery" indicator came on (or, if I waited long enough before changing batteries, the camera shut down) when the batteries were still relatively fresh for just about any other application except for the camera.** After going through three sets of four batteries after about 350 coin images, I decided it was time to investigate the possibility of getting back into rechargeable batteries as a matter of economics. Beach Camera has a rechargeable AA kit with four 2500 mAh AAs plus charger for $50 (plus shipping): http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/pro...sku=CNACKD55 . This was more than I wanted to pay, so I hit the pavement. After a number of stops at Walmart, Office Max, Best Buy, and a couple other places, I found what I wanted at Home Depot where I bought a packaged Duracell 15-minute charger and four Duracell 2400 mAh rechargeables for about $22. I also bought four Duracell 2650 mAh AA for an additional $9.50. As an alternative, I could have bought a less expensive charger which did the same job, but over a much longer period of time. Since I'm a fulltime RVer with only generator power which is on only a few hours per day, I wanted a fast charge although the slower charge will give a "deeper" and hence longer lasting charge. YMMV. The batteries are NiMH (Nickel metal hydride) composition. I did not find any Lithium ion, Nickel Cadmium, nor other rechargeable battery types for digital cameras. It is my understanding the state-of-the-art of such alternative battery types is at the point where NiMH is the optimal battery for digital cameras, but I'd like to hear others' experiences. I have had the new rechargeables in my S2 for about a month, have taken about 100 pictures, have not yet had to change batteries, so I cannot give a statement of longevity. One source for rechargeable digital camera batteries (from a Google on "NiMH batteries"): http://www.steves-digicams.com/nimh_batteries.html . **Battery capacity is measured in ampere-hours. While voltage may be an indicator of battery condition and is the unit most easily measured with a meter, the actual capacity of a battery to operate an appliance is measured in power (watts), but is best estimated by current (amperes = amps) over time as shown on many batteries as amp-hours. (Current can only be measured under load and in series, very difficult to do with a digital camera.) In the instance of AA batteries, only rechargeables show amp-hours (milli-Ampere hours or mAh) on the outside of the batteries. While standard alkaline batteries may have a nominal voltage of 1.5 volts DC (measured range of new alkaline AAs from 1.25vdc to 1.7vdc), they have relatively low current (milliamp) ratings and power output (in milliwatts [volts times amps = watts]) is reduced fairly quickly. Thus, while a battery may show good voltage, it may not have enough total power to operate the camera. Conversely, I consistently measured only 1.2 vdc on the eight Duracell NiMH AAs, but the much greater current output results in higher power for longer periods than alkaline batteries. Fred
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Forum Dad
 United States
24170 Posts |
I'll be honest Fred, I didn't read your entire post.  But here is what I have learned about rechargeable batteries. Your camera will tell you they are no good when they are in danger of not supporting a flash. The flash uses a tremendous amount of charge, that's why they are still relatively fresh when the camera tells you they're not. If you want your batteries to last for the most recharges, you must fully drain them before charging them again, otherwise they will build up a resistance internally and begin to only accept half a charge or so. Keep a flashlight or something similar handy that takes the same batteries, and use it to run the batteries totally dead before recharging. Using this method, I have had batteries last 1 1/2 years, and I take a lot of pictures.
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
I am a cheapie I use rechargables in my cordless computer mouse I use Nickle Cadmiums which have a memory which means if you recharge them when not empty they will loose performance fast
The newer type of batteries which need also a newer type of charger will not have a memory and will go to 100% efficiency even if you charge them when they have 75% capacity left However they will cost like three times more
NiMH (Nickel metal hydride) are newer generation batteries but Remember that a slow charge allways is better and over here in Belgium night electricity only costs 60% between 11pm and 6 am In the meantime I am using non rechargebles for my through the lense non digital camera flash
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Rest in Peace
 United States
2684 Posts |
My major threat to my carefully constructed battery economics plan is as in earlier years: losing the darned things. I almost lost one last night while playing with a voltmeter - a rechargeable rolled off my desk and onto the floor. If you ever saw my floor, things which end up there can be doomed to extinction.  One of my favorite sites for information is Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel...ride_battery . While it states the newer generation of NiMH batteries have more capacity and less of the memory problem of NiCads, the memory problem is still there and NiMH batts still tend to self-discharge. Bobby's advice for fully discharging a partially discharged NiMH before recharging is good although a flashlight won't work for me since I use LED flashlights which keep shining nearly forever (3.5 years so far on one and the batteries are still as good as new despite daily flashlight use). However, I have a Dremel in which I can stick a bunch of AAs and let it run until it quits; no automatic shutoff on the tool. Both my laptop and cellphone use Lithium-ion batteries. Has anyone used this type battery for a digital camera?
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
quote: Originally posted by Morgan Fred
My major threat to my carefully constructed battery economics plan is as in earlier years: losing the darned things. I almost lost one last night while playing with a voltmeter - a rechargeable rolled off my desk and onto the floor. If you ever saw my floor, things which end up there can be doomed to extinction. 
One of my favorite sites for information is Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel...ride_battery . While it states the newer generation of NiMH batteries have more capacity and less of the memory problem of NiCads, the memory problem is still there and NiMH batts still tend to self-discharge. Bobby's advice for fully discharging a partially discharged NiMH before recharging is good although a flashlight won't work for me since I use LED flashlights which keep shining nearly forever (3.5 years so far on one and the batteries are still as good as new despite daily flashlight use). However, I have a Dremel in which I can stick a bunch of AAs and let it run until it quits; no automatic shutoff on the tool.
Both my laptop and cellphone use Lithium-ion batteries. Has anyone used this type battery for a digital camera?
Lithium-ion batteries are not available in these sizes, Fred. They are a completely different technology, and are capable of igniting if mistakenly placed into a NiMH charger. In addition, they operate at mmore than twice the voltage of "regular" batteries, and would be tough to make compatible.
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Valued Member
United States
421 Posts |
My camera uses proprietary Lithium Ion batteries. I like the idea of AA's for the most part better. However, and I don't know if it has anything to do with them being Lithium Ion or not, but I get huge battery life out of the new camera.
I was at the park for 3over 3 hours the other weekend, kept the camera on the whole time with no power save, took over 150 photos and when I got home the battery still had over half its charge left.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
quote: Originally posted by Morgan Fred
One of my favorite sites for information is Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel...ride_battery . While it states the newer generation of NiMH batteries have more capacity and less of the memory problem of NiCads, the memory problem is still there and NiMH batts still tend to self-discharge. Bobby's advice for fully discharging a partially discharged NiMH before recharging is good although a flashlight won't work for me since I use LED flashlights which keep shining nearly forever (3.5 years so far on one and the batteries are still as good as new despite daily flashlight use). However, I have a Dremel in which I can stick a bunch of AAs and let it run until it quits; no automatic shutoff on the tool.
I have a multitude of the NiMH batteries in AA size for my cameras. Out of about 15 cameras they all take AA's. Naturally not my Sony Mavicas. I have been using NiMH I think since they first came out or at least I first heard of them. I have a collection of the things with mah ratings from 1200 up to 2650 and also a fariety of brand names. Duracell, Energiser, Sanyo, one set written in Chinese and one set all in black with no name at all. I use four different chargers. My experience is the writting on them is bogus, lies or just a guess. Leaving them in a cases, in the same room, some discharge and some don't. Some discharge in a few weeks, some in several weeks and one set never discharges and it has nothing to do with the ratings on the batteries. If all fully charged and left to sit the black ones never loose their charge, The 2650mah loose their charge first, followed by the 2100mah ones, then the 2300mah. Serveral others of miscellaneous mah ratings last a wide variety of time also. Most of my cameras take 4 batteries. My Fuji S7000 eats up batteries quickly. Again, however, those mystery black covered ones last the longes, followed by the 2300mah ones, and then it's anybody's guess which is next. I've tried mixing up the batteries with different ratings to see if they are playing a game with me but I find that regardless of how I mix them up, when the camera stops and I check the life of each battery, the same ones are good and the same ones are amost dead. My summation is I think the manufacturers are putting writtings on the batteries that make no sence and they are there to appease the buyers. As to flashlights, I am suprized that no one here is using the ones that you just shake, no batteries ever.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1703 Posts |
My previous camera (HP) used three AA battries and went thru them so fast it was crazy.It didn't matter if I used Duracell or a good rechargable battery.I had to recharge or replace every other use. Then I bought a Fuji camera that uses its own battery pack.The pack if you had to buy one is around $35-$40.I have never needed to buy a spare because I have never ran the original battery down enought to need it! This thing just keeps going and going.Honestly.I can take 30 pics and it shows zero drain on the battery. I will never go back to a camera that uses AA battries again. I bet I spent $50 on batteries in the year I had the HP camera. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
830 Posts |
Carl - I have a couple of those "no battery" flashlights, and I love 'em  I keep one in the car all the time. Interesting and informative thread and discussion here, and virtually all of this just reinforces my decision to never buy a camera that doesn't use a Lithium Ion rechargeable battery. The two digital cameras I use are an older Olympus C-770 UltraZoom, and my new Nikon D-200. Both came with proprietary LI batteries and rechargers. If you treat those batteries right, they last a long time and seem to hold their charges for loads of shots. I have gotten well over 200 shots (highest size and resolution) on the Olympus. I haven't had a chance to shoot that many at once with the Nikon, but I expect similar results.I am shopping for a small pocket sized digital camera with a load of features for my wife to use, and I've seen a couple of Canons I like except that they take AA's. No sale.
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Valued Member
United States
287 Posts |
My rechargables last for about 190 pictures. Like Bobby stated they must be run down completely so you can make full use of their life.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
To add just a few more things here. Those mystery batteries with the black cover, no name or rating are capable of taking upwards into the 2 to 3 hundreds of photos with my Fuji S7000. Since that camera uses 2 cards, XD and Compact Flash at the same time and both cards are 2 gig, the camera has the capacity of about 5,000 photos. If I use the batteries that state 2650mah, I'm lucky to be able to take even 50 photos. Also, none of my NiMH batteries have ever died completely. Many people mistake the NiCad problem of lettingthem go dead also with the NiMH batteries. Not so. I recharge all of mine about every month regarless of if used or not. Again, no battery has died yet. Another thing I've noticed is that the same batteries go out faster at different rates in different cameras. One camera, a DXG 518 eats up 2100, 2300Mah NiMH batteries fast but 1700 and 1850Mah NiMH batteries appear to last longer.Again, my sumation is I think battery companies just put info on batteries to appease the public and have nothing to do with what is inside. For Christmas I purchased a case of those flashlights that you just shake and don't need batteries. I gave them out as presents to everyone I know. You would have thought I gave them $1,000 or something the way they all reacted. Everyone loves those things. Maybe not as bright as a 7cell monster but never needs bulbs or batteries. Just shake the stupid thing and poof, let there be light. Not sure how to top that next year.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1541 Posts |
I bought extra recharbagles and I'm also planning on buying a charger that recondition the batteries. That way it'll discharge before recharging to avoide the memory problem.
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Valued Member
United States
67 Posts |
Once you go lithium, you'll never go back!! I'm using a Nikon D50, which comes with 2 lithium-ion packs and an external charger. The external charger is very important - you can shoot while charging the other pack. Not really much of an issue tho, I can go about 300 shots, with flash, on one pack. Also, lithium batteries charge much faster, about 2 1/2 hours for a full charge. Since they came with the camera, I don't really know how expensive they were.
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Replies: 12 / Views: 3,102 |
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