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New At Photography, Request Guidance....

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Newbismatic's Avatar
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2011  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Newbismatic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are pros and cons to HDR photography... this is a personal taste of mine, but I don't like that "overprocessed" look.

Sure it looks cool, but what are your purposes?

Are you creating a piece of art? Are you documenting something? Photojournalism? Any time you start adding multiple photos together, there is some kickback from the community as to what is real or an artists rendering...

You really can get lost in the world of HDR... I have periods of time where I REALLY like to shoot HDR, but then I'll come back and then just shoot single exposures.

Anyway, rant over... It's certainly fun to experiment with, and I would be interested in seeing you post some examples of your work.
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United States
4038 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2011  3:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Same goes for any multi-shot processing, including focus stacking or super-resolution.

But there is one area of multi-shot processing that makes sense to me, related to coin photos: image averaging. It is not possible to take a completely acceptable, single shot of a coin. I know that's a bold statement, but it is really not possible to get lighting, luster, color, surface details, shadow details, resolution, etc all in one shot. When I post a coin photo online, sometimes the first question is "does it look like that in-hand?". Well, of course it does, if you hold it in the same way with the same lighting as when you took the photo. But change the angle, light type, etc and it looks different. By doing multi-shot averaging, you can take a color shot, a luster shot, and a surface detail shot and then merge them together later. In the end the coin won't look at all like it does in hand in a single view, but more a collage of different views.

What I can see merit for in HDR is elimination of shadows and highlights, basically centering-up the histogram. Haven't tried it yet on coins.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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Newbismatic's Avatar
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2011  11:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Newbismatic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
rmpsrpms- I would like to see some of what you talk about... especially with the shots that you are getting.
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 Posted 08/03/2011  4:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sure...here are some pics of the same coin taken with 5 different lighting styles:

Single light high angle for luster and color
New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....

Single light lower angle for luster and surfaces
New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....

Single light very low angle to emphasize surfaces
New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....

Single light with white reflector/diffuser
New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....

Two LEDs with Directors ("RSD" "Ray's Super Diffuser")
New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....

And here are some Weighted Average Composites:

2-Shot Composite with White Diffuser and Luster + Surface shots
New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....

2-Shot Composite with high angle Luster and low angle Surface shots
New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....

2-Shot Composite with low angle Luster and White Reflector shots
New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....

5-Shot Composite with all shots averaged
New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....

These shots were all taken with an el-cheapo 75mm Vivitar enlarger lens that has significant internal haze...
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Edited by rmpsrpms
08/03/2011 8:34 pm
Valued Member
Newbismatic's Avatar
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2011  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Newbismatic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now here's the real question... which looks most like the coin in hand?

Which would you say has the best representation of the real thing? Or which gives the best overall FEELING of the coin in hand?

This coin looks to have some interesting toning going on and I think that some of your composites start to show that along with the actual condition that the coin is in, where some lighting examples hide the condition (surface blemishes, dings, etc)

Such a tough call... any time you jump into HDR. I think I'm going to try this with a few shots that I've got.
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 Posted 08/03/2011  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You should put a smiley after that first question, unless you are serious, and if so please re-read my earlier post. The question is actually a pet peeve of mine...
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
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nova numismatic's Avatar
Canada
60 Posts
 Posted 08/04/2011  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nova numismatic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
rmpsrpms thanks for the great coin photography demonstration, the entire thread is really helpful.
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Newbismatic's Avatar
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 08/04/2011  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Newbismatic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
;) perhaps you are right... I did mean to put a smiley.

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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2011  12:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You know, the thing I take away from this last series, more than anything else, is just how nice that Cent is. The coloration is amazing, and not even a somewhat subpar lens can hide it.

It's plain fact that one single photograph cannot capture *everything* about a given coin. Therefore, we settle on a standard of what we consider a "good" coin picture; it's a very subjective thing, and your tastes might differ from mine. Myself, I can live without great representation of luster in the presence of accurate color, good contrast and no obscuring shadows. The luster, in such a case, tends to imply itself; I can fill in the blanks.

Of the examples presented above, Ray's Super Diffuser wins easily. I'm thinking it is the proper solution for copper, at least.
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 Posted 08/07/2011  12:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a nice Cent, and maybe one of the most photographed coins around. I've taken literally thousands of photos of it! It came from an original roll whose storage conditions over 50 years in a safe caused the coins to all tone beautifully. I still have most of that roll, or at least most of the more dramatically-toned examples. Man would I love to find another roll like that!

The RSD setup was optimized with this coin, so it's good to hear that it does the coin justice. Some time I will take a picture of the RSD in action...
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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23522 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2011  2:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Some time I will take a picture of the RSD in action...


Yes, please do.
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Chute72's Avatar
United States
1314 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2011  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All right gentlemen,

Super Dave, thanks for being the Sign Post. I interpret the sign to read, "No Return Beyond This Point."
The Pentax K-x arrived yesterday. My lenses appear to fit well, including the Sigma Macro 1:2.8, f= 50mm.

I was able to adjust the neck strap.

Then I went to the operating manual.
It was like a book, "How To Speak Chinese." Written in Chinese.
And 300+ pages in length.

I wouldn't mind learning the basics from Matthew Harrison Brady, but this camera is a little intimidating.

Before bedtime I read 35 pages, understood half of them, and managed to get the batteries installed.
Unfortunately the "rechargable batteries" weren't charged.
Tonight I installed charged batteries, which allowed me to delve into the unknown, with some power.

Newbismatic, I love the variety of your images of the Lincoln Cent. You set the bar high. I want to do similar work, but may not live long enough to master this camera.

BenE,
Oh Dear Sweet Brother of Pentax, I fear that some night you will hear my hand knocking on your door, in desperate need of advise.
This level of complexity could not exist without a significant number of followers, so I suppose that many others have mastered this camera.
If fortune prevails, I will join your ranks.

Others, thank you for your contributions and encouragement.

If I can ever figure out how this thing works, I'll have a lot of photo's to share.

Thanks,
Kurt

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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2011  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
<3

Please, never stop posting here.
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 Posted 08/09/2011  11:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a great thread! Lots of fun and interesting stuff.

My RSD setup is really just a pair of Jansjo LED lights with what I call Directors: a combination of diffusers and reflectors. These Directors create a "strip" of light about 1-1/2" long and 1/4" wide, sort of like a very small fluorescent bulb. The directors are reflective everywhere inside their (taped-together) structure except where the light exits (exit aperture), where they have a piece of translucent, thick vellum. On the surface that faces the coin, they have a piece of flat black paper to keep any stray light from hitting the lens and causing flare. The "wall" of this black paper is vertical so that I can get the lights as close as possible to vertical from the coin with the exit aperture. They are glued together, then taped in place on the LED head.

Here are some pictures from different angles, plus a picture of both in action. Note the angle of approx 10:00 and 2:00, but in this case the lights are distributed over a much wider clock angle of 12:00 to 4:00 and 12:00 to 8:00 but at different angles to the coin. This seems to make a very pleasing combo of direct and diffuse lighting, and elimination of hotspots.

New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....
New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....
New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....
New-At-Photography,-Request-Guidance....
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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Chute72's Avatar
United States
1314 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2011  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sweet Joy.

Dare I hope to claim progress?

Having mastered the art and science of installing the neck strap, I fell back into a state of smug self adoration.
And well I deserved to, as the mastering of such a high tech field such as neck straps would cause anyone to become giddy with delight.
And as fortune would have it, this new found skill became imediately useful.
When I discovered that my new camera strap was quite capable of entangling anything on the desktop... computer cords, unanswered corespondence, the coins I desire to photograph and my highly scientific collection of spyder webs. I knew it must be removed. And removed I did. Like a Ninja strap remover.

But that is not the end...
I learned so much more. (Oh, and isn't camera discovery such a joy?)
My next lesson involved the proper way to pick up a camera.
Done incorrectly, one can actually take a picture of ones self.
If there is enough interest, I could post the self portrait.
But not until I regain full eyesight.

PS. The flash works.


It is alive!
The sleeping giant of a camera has exibited signs of life.

Updates as I progress or regress.
Later,
Kurt
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