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Nine Year Old Figures Out Qe, Why Can't Bernanke?

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Pillar of the Community
mkfarm's Avatar
United States
667 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2011  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When we conquer on a world scale, I think we shall use gold for the purpose of building public lavatories in the streets of large cities.

--Lenin

I wonder what he would say if he was alive today.
Valued Member
Ron2012Paul's Avatar
175 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  01:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ron2012Paul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gold has been used as money for 6000 years, way before greenbacks.
Valued Member
Ron2012Paul's Avatar
175 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  01:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ron2012Paul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Think about what the dollar is ....its just paper with different numbers on them printed out of thin air. The dollar used to be backed by gold and now it has nothing in value backing it up, its just paper.
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bibd's Avatar
Canada
838 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  02:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bibd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe the Gold spike has been due to excess liquidity (i.e. investors have too much money and not enough places to put it).

Loose money is politically more pallatable than tight money. Very few (in power) have the guts to tighten things up. So as much as I feel Gold is in bubble territory, I'm afraid the bubble probably won't burst until short-term interest rates go up.

As coin collectors, it's a great time to buy tougher-date gold and silver coins at (close to) melt value, with some assurance that there is a numismatic floor to their value. (Well... a can of worms: I think coins are overpriced too, but their demise may be more of a slow train wreck than a bursting bubble. Is there any way today's kids will be tomorrow's collectors? I doubt it.)
Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  07:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When discussing PM prices, we must remember that "historic" gold prices only go back to 1974. Not really a lot to go on.
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mitchhailey's Avatar
United States
1150 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mitchhailey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There may be a lot of historical evidence on what gold and silver bought LONG before 1974.

And anyone who trusts that the government is giving you HONEST inflation numbers needs a reality check. Same goes for unemployment numbers, etc...

If you want the truth, go shopping.
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Ron2012Paul's Avatar
175 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  3:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ron2012Paul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sound money is defined by measurement and weight hence gold and silver.
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fenton's Avatar
United States
4989 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ron, the reality is you can't go into a Wal-mart and spend Gold. They only take dollars. Hence, if you want to buy anything at a major retailer with Gold you must first find a broker willing to exchange it for dollars. The rate one gets is arbitrary and determined by a market quotation. The market quotation was $400 ten years ago. Now it is $1800. Caveat Emptor for anyone who wants to buy at these rates. You are kidding yourself if you think, by doing so, you are preserving your buying power. By contrast, you are simply buying into a bubble just like NASDAQ investors did in the 1990's ("tech stocks can never go down"... right...) or home buyers did in the mid-2000's ("all my savings are in my house","home values always go up","they aren't making any more land" ... right ...)
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mkfarm's Avatar
United States
667 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  4:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok you got me there. Then don't buy or hold any gold / silver. You made a good point as to why it will not work for you. Though adding a little step for conversion is hardly a problem.

Buyer - be -ware holds on anything. It also holds to someone that only has 100% faith in the greenback too. Place 100% in greenbacks and risk not growing your money and cutting your buying power.

I would hope that everyone understands that the value of an investment could go or down. Only those thinking they can make a fast easy dollar then loose complain that they didn't know.

I don't see your point other than you are hoping for a large reduction in the gold value to say you told us so. I can buy that, now how much time do you want to keeping saying this until the market goes down.

I mean it will go down sometime but now since you are supporting this you have to give a clear date for this to take place.

I can keep saying the bubble will burst for a year then when it does claim I told you so and was right.

What facts lead you to say it will fall and what is your time frame give or take a few weeks. Anything other than that would be luck for as much as you saying it will fall.

Not trying to be a smart back side but just trying to see what current facts you are using to spread the fear of a market down turn now.

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Ron2012Paul's Avatar
175 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  5:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ron2012Paul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't see gold as a bubble what's so ever. The reason we use dollars is cause we go off of a keynesian style economy which can be debated that it doesn't work. You can also make a very strong case for the dollar going back to a gold standard. The fed has a monopoly over our money if we had a true free market consumers could choose which form of 'money' they see has greater purchasing power. I think if it was left up to the people we would ditch the dollar and go back to gold and silver cause that's what sound money is. Fenton, it also states in the constitution that states shall only issue gold and silver has legal tender so even our founding fathers knew of the dangers of paper money. The only reason we have the dollar is cause the U.S. goes off of a keynesian style economy like I stated cause if the government has a form of money they can print out of thin air then there's no stopping the size the government can reach. If we were to go back to a gold standard washington would actually have to balance their budgets hence shrink the size of government which they don't want.
Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ron, the reality is you can't go into a Wal-mart and spend Gold. They only take dollars

That problem can be solved in ten minutes with a few hundred dollars.
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Gold is stable if bought at fair value. It is NOT at fair value right now.

They you should have the courage of your convictions and be shorting gold hand over fist. After all, according to your thesis, you WILL make a ton of money that way.


Quote:
Ron, the reality is you can't go into a Wal-mart and spend Gold. They only take dollars

Yeah, I keep hearing this all the time too. Fact is, you can't spend Australian dollars, Canadian dollars, or Swiss Francs at US Wal*Mart stores either but that does not make them "not money". They ARE money. Just not the kind that Wal*Mart accepts in the US.


Quote:
I don't see gold as a bubble what's so ever.

Gold clearly is not in a bubble. We don't see people buying gold today so they can flip it tomorrow and double their money ala the over-heated housing market in 2005-7. What we have today is a GOVERNMENT bubble. Yes, that's right, folks, we have FAR too much government and we simply can't pay for all of it. It is the 8,000 lb. elephant in the room and Pachy definitely needs to go on a diet.


Quote:
The market quotation was $400 ten years ago. Now it is $1800. Caveat Emptor for anyone who wants to buy at these rates.

So, how do you feel about Apple Inc. stock? It's gone from under $8 a share in Sept. 2001 to $384 a share today. That's a 48x multiplier while gold was multiplying by 7x. Is Apple a bubble too?


Quote:
And anyone who trusts that the government is giving you HONEST inflation numbers needs a reality check. Same goes for unemployment numbers, etc...

Amen to that, Bro. The numbers that the Fed and the government are handing out are clearly bogus. They are counting on the illiterati out there not to be able to figure this out. Well, tough luck for them. Some of us were educated in spite of the US Dept. of Education's best efforts.


Quote:
Is there any way today's kids will be tomorrow's collectors? I doubt it.)

Unless the US government has a MAJOR epiphany, today's kids will be more likely to be struggling to survive rather than collecting coins in the future.


Quote:
I wonder what he (Lenin) would say if he was alive today.

Well, his first words would likely address the complete collapse of the USSR.


Quote:
But it means that people value it more now than they did then.

Or that we simply value dollars less than before.
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Maineman750's Avatar
United States
3592 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Anyone ever think the price of gold reflects the weakness of the dollar ? Inflation is the same thing. I wouldn't blame the price of PM on a bubble as quick as I would blame a weakening dollar.
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bibd's Avatar
Canada
838 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  10:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bibd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Anyone ever think the price of gold reflects the weakness of the dollar ?

Yes -- that's more or less equivalent to my statement that gold's run-up is due to excess liquidity.
Valued Member
Ron2012Paul's Avatar
175 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2011  10:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ron2012Paul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me its obvious the price of gold reflects the weakness of the dollar due to inflation. Its all based on keynesian economics.
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