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Having Trouble Iding This Canstantine Sol

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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
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 Posted 10/03/2011  8:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Coin not in hand so these are the best pics I can offer, sorry. Its not in great shape either but should be good enough to 100% from the picture.

Having trouble finding a match for it in RIC - or anywhere for that matter. I have a theory but would like to see if I'm just missing something simple that others can spot. I only bought it because I couldn't ID it.

Having-Trouble-Iding-This-Canstantine-Sol

Thanks in advance.
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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 10/03/2011  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are you able to make out the mint mark? I can't seem to.
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 Posted 10/03/2011  9:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't help you much with the ID of your present coin,

but I was wondering if this coin is similar to it and the ones you have been discussing.

It's described as being a London mint but I don't see a mint mark.




Having-Trouble-Iding-This-Canstantine-Sol
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VisigothKing's Avatar
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 Posted 10/03/2011  9:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I see an T at the end of the mint mark in ex, and maybe an S before the T.
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 Posted 10/03/2011  10:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Are you able to make out the mint mark? I can't seem to


I agree Jango, it looks like ST and maybe 2 characters before that - which would indicate Ostia

The field marks look very much like AS - which would indicate Trier and (less likely) Lyon

Sol standing right and looking left would indicate Arles

The bust could be from Rome, Arles or Trier, maybe a few more!

The problem is none of these things tie-in. If I had to guess I'd say Arles - but it would be unknown with AS in the fields! The mintmark would have to be something like ARLGamma?

I'm very, very confused echizento.



Quote:
wondering if this coin is similar to it and the ones you have been discussing


That is indeed from the same series of coins Doucet. Its not from London though, its from Rome 313-314. It has unfortunately lost all of its mintmark, rather cleanly too, it would have been 'R' or 'R*' followed by P/S/T/Q for the workshop. It is quite an odd coin to be honest as the style of it is certainly a little 'London' and not the typical 'Rome' style.

The 'RF' field marks were only used in Rome so I can only guess that its the 'off' bust style and cleanly missing minkmark that has caused it to be listed as a London coin. Its certainly an interesting one.
Edited by bobbyhelmet
10/03/2011 10:11 pm
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 Posted 10/03/2011  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The bust could be from Rome, Arles or Trier, maybe a few more!

Interesting, I didn't know bust type could help in the mint origin of a Roman coin.
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 Posted 10/03/2011  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Interesting, I didn't know bust type could help in the mint origin of a Roman coin


Yeah - its not an exact science but the more and more coins you see the more your able to guess as to the mint. I've been obsessed (not sure why) with these Constantine Sols for a while now and its amazing what subtle differences you can pick up on when you look at enough examples. I didn't even consciously do it - it just kind of 'sank in'.
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 Posted 10/03/2011  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think your coin is may be Constantine I AE Follis RIC VII 053 from Lyons. It looks to me like the mintmark is or could be PLG. If it is then it is:

http://wildwinds.com/coins/ric/cons..._vII_053.jpg

OBV: IMP CONSTANTINVS AVG, laureate cuirassed bust right
REV: SOLI INVICTO COMITI A-S, Sol standing left, chlamys across left shoulder, holding globe, raising right hand, PLG in ex.

JW
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 Posted 10/03/2011  11:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is where it starts to get confusing - while I agree with a lot of that attribution JW on my coin Sol is 'standing right looking left' the only Lyons coins with Sol in this way have 'SF' in the fields.

I'm toying with it being RS ARLGamma and perhaps Arles 110 or 138. But, even though Roman 'R's often looked like 'A's mine looks far more like 'A' or even Delta than any other I've seen.

I dont know much about mules but could it be one of these, maybe even just a straight up error. I've just checked Not in RIC and found nothing so its not a known rarity or omission from RIC.
Edited by bobbyhelmet
10/03/2011 11:35 pm
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 Posted 10/03/2011  11:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You know Bobbyhelmet, I didn't even realize it was you who started this thread. I just wasn't looking at the author. If I had, I would not have presumed to tell you this might be a Lyons coin. I looked, and you are correct. Sol is standing in the wrong direction in the example I cited. I looked at the two examples you cited, and although Sol is standing in the correct position, I just don't think either is correct. Is there a chance this is not cited at all in RIC? I still think it looks like Lyons mint, but you have the coin in hand, can you see anything more in exergue? I think I'll keep looking for a bit before I give up. Wish me luck and good luck to you too.

JW
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 Posted 10/03/2011  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coin not in hand till later this week unfortunately! Hopefully then I can shed a bit more light on the situation.

At least I'm not the only one confused now It would be nice to get a 'Not in RIC', like yours, but I wont get my hopes up as 99.99% of the time you get the coin in hand and it turns out to be something normal.

I bought another gamble coin today - think I'll post that one another day when its quiet. Thanks for looking
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 Posted 10/03/2011  11:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm still looking, but wanted you to look at this coin from Arles. It as C-S across fields as opposed to your coin, but it is certainly close.

JW

http://www.acsearch.info/search.htm...&c=&a=&l=#33
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Bing's Avatar
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 Posted 10/03/2011  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 10/04/2011  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Style wise thats an excellent match - its all gonna hinge on what is (or isn't) in left field. If its an A, I have a unique coin! unlikely but I can dream for a few more days yet

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be a C having seen the above. I'll keep you posted mate.
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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 10/04/2011  12:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I enhanced your picture some and it is clearly AS. The last three letters of the mint mark appears to be RST.

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Bing's Avatar
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 Posted 10/04/2011  12:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, then I guess we should wait till you have it in hand and can maybe see it better. Now I have one of my own I'm going to post in a few moments. Good luck with this one.

JW
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