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1909 VDB Lincoln Cent, You Versus NGC

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 Posted 08/10/2022  11:04 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
1909 VDB Lincoln Cent





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 Posted 08/11/2022  06:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So my guess is that this thread is dead ?
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 Posted 08/11/2022  06:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the CCF!

Give it some time. Everyone has to sleep.
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637

Clothes Dryers are the Coin's natural enemy. NEVER store your coin collection in a dryer. This has been a Yokozuna Public Service Announcement. dryer coin
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 Posted 08/11/2022  07:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KYCopperCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NGC grades these, PCGS does not, possibly a mikesmountainvalues coin (ebay seller). I'm guessing NGC 65bn, but the spotting on the obverse and fingerprint on the reverse hold it to a 64bn in my book.
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 Posted 08/11/2022  08:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll say MS-65BN, just a stab.



to the CCF!
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 Posted 08/11/2022  08:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
lots of little nicks on the reverse letters. heavy toning makes it difficult to see whats under. MS64BN it might get a bump for toning
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 Posted 08/11/2022  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
KYKopperKoins

Any idea what mikesmountainvalues (there's another dealer on eBay that does the same with silver coins) treats their copper coins with to get the luster to "pop" with the light source? I assume they are using a combo of chemical treatment and light source type. The reflection of the light source on the slab suggests a high-intensity tensor light.

The color is one issue, but to me the altered luster is a bigger one. And as KYKopperKoins states, it is NGC that routinely certifies these coins that have both the color and luster modification. Whereas with PCGS I've seen them only do it with nice RD or RB coins with the altered luster; PCGS will accept the modified luster.
Edited by TheColorofMoney
08/11/2022 09:35 am
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 Posted 08/11/2022  11:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JTCC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm saying MS-64/BN.
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 Posted 08/11/2022  11:41 am  Show Profile   Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice looking toner!

65BN
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 Posted 08/11/2022  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like an MS-65BN.
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 Posted 08/11/2022  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KYCopperCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure on the chemical, former grader at NGC said it isn't ms70, and said they know he treats them, but they call it market acceptable. From what I'm told, whatever he uses, the color stays stable.
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 Posted 08/11/2022  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS64 but the color does not appeal to me
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 Posted 08/11/2022  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
KYCopperCoins

Could be a very dilute solution of DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) along with a skillfully controlled "dwell" time (time that the coin and solvent are in contact).

http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/demos...ts/12.9.html

I remember these "market acceptable" treated copper coins appearing at shows in 1988 or 1989.

I will try to find out more.
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 Posted 08/12/2022  01:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CentSation to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
" NGC grades these,  PCGS does not,"


What does this even mean?
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 Posted 08/12/2022  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LazerPig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
" NGC grades these, PCGS does not,"

If I'm reading it correctly I think he means that NGC knows these are chemically treated but still gives them a straight grade while PCGS will only give a details grade
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 Posted 08/12/2022  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello All,

It has been 2 days, 4 hours, 48 minutes and 36 seconds since I posted this coin. Now is the time for the reveal.

NGC MS 65 BN

This coin has likely been dipped in MS-70 (2-butoxyethanol & potassium hydroxide mixture) or treated in some other way.

The coin is for sale on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/195070270366 by some, as Walter Breen would call them, "mental defective." The seller wants $21,999 for it (along with a "twin" coin that is fully green in color, likewise treated - probably MS-70, also residing in an NGC holder with a $21,999 pricetag).

NOTE: I encourage people to spend time on eBay checking out the coins for sale there because it is quite the learning experience.

Edited by TheColorofMoney
08/12/2022 4:06 pm
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