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Judean, John Hyrcanus II 63-40 BC

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Pillar of the Community

United States
1315 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2012  4:23 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Greetings

This is a new coin I just received. It's pretty small about 13mm. I got it mainly for the Cornucopiae on the reverse. I've been looking at a timeline of the use of cornucopiae on ancient coins (I don't know why) and this strike and condition seemed better than most that I looked at.

This is my first Judean coin, I know very little about them so as always, any comments on it or history about Judean coins and John Hyrcanus I or II and their connection to Rome or Greece would be appreciated. Your photos too.

On this coin the obverse is a little off center. I don't read Hebrew so I'm not sure all the legend is visible.

The cuts on the flan edges are pretty neat.

Thanks
Judean,-John-Hyrcanus-II--63-40-BC
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TJsCoins's Avatar
United States
3229 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2012  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TJsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Doucet, that is one mighty fine judean coin!

What lettering is there looks very intact. I like the toning. The cornucopiae are very nicely centered. wish I could help with the Hebrew but that is a no go.

I thought the "cuts" on the flan edges were refered to as "sprues". It is my understanding that the sprues are from the blank that was used in the die to make the coin. If my understanding is correct; what I find very interesting about your coin is what appears to me as "rolling over" of the sprue on the lower left of the obverse. Of course I have been at this ancient coin thing for less than two years and what I am saying may make no sense at all.

Anyway. Great coin! Thanks for sharing!
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LaureateBust's Avatar
Canada
331 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2012  5:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LaureateBust to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just posted for the first time about my Judaean coin today in the ID forum, but at the time I didn't know what it was. Mine also features the two cornucopia and pomegranate. From looking at sample photos online mine looks closest (in my hour of google experience) to the reign of Mattathias Antigonus (40-37 BC). This is my first experience with ancient coins! Mine has clearly seen better millennia...

Judean,-John-Hyrcanus-II--63-40-BC

Judean,-John-Hyrcanus-II--63-40-BC
Edited by LaureateBust
06/01/2012 5:36 pm
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2012  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your coin is quite interesting. I only own one Judean coin which happens to have been struck by John Hyrcanus I. I posted it a while back. It doesn't look anything like your coin and it has Greek lettering rather than Hebrew.Judean,-John-Hyrcanus-II--63-40-BC

I also find the double Cornucopiae intrigueing as well. I just posted a Sep Severus coin from Emesa on Doug's 25 favorite thread which has the double Cornucopiae. Other then the traditional meaning of a cornucopiae meaning the "horn of plenty", I have no idea what other meaning a double Cornucopiae could have
Pillar of the Community
United States
1315 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2012  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TJ, I noticed the metal looking rolled on the obverse over as well. It might be the burr left from shearing the flans apart then hammered over? But that would mean they sheared it with the reverse side up which doesn't look sheared?

LaureateBust, Thanks for posting your coin. Did Mattathias Antigonus (40-37 BC) become a ruler right after J. Hyrcanus II?

Your coin has a similar tapered flan....... BTW nice photos!
Pillar of the Community
United States
1315 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2012  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks JW, I recall seeing both the coins you refer to. It seems the Judean coin had a few remarkable traits about it and the S.Severus is one that I would surely like to have an example of.

It's interesting how your John Hyrcanus I coin has Greek inscriptions.
Edited by Doucet
06/01/2012 5:42 pm
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LaureateBust's Avatar
Canada
331 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2012  5:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LaureateBust to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Did Mattathias Antigonus (40-37 BC) become a ruler right after J. Hyrcanus II?


That's my guess, since the dates match up. John Hyrcanus II was apparently ruler from 67,63-40 BC from what I read today. My only reason for picking Mattathias Antigonus is the barely visible wreath-like pattern on the non-cornucopia side (reverse?) that I've found on other examples from his reign.


Quote:
BTW nice photos!


Thank you! I'm still working to improve my setup, but I've gotten it to a decent place for now.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2012  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have never seen one like this before, in such good condition!
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stevex6's Avatar
3352 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2012  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stevex6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NICE, are you kiddin' me => full points!! (gold, red, blue) ...

=> wow-factor => *sproing!*
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oxos's Avatar
United States
422 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2012  01:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oxos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This one took a little time, as there are many different versions of these coins from John Hyrcanus I, Judah Aristobulus (oldest son of Hyrcanus I) and Alexander Jannaeus (younger son of Hyrcanus I) that have very similar obverses and reverses. It appears that the same die engraver or at least the same workshop did both later Aristobulus and early Jannaueus coins.
However, after looking closely at the reverse on this coin, I'm pretty confident that it is from John Hyrcanus I.
The Greek 'A' is at the top of the inscripton which is in Paleo-Hebrew text and says, 'Yehohanan the High Priest and the Council of the Jews' within the wreath. That 'A' may stand for the relationship that Hyrcanus had with Antiochus VII, Seleucid king and his successor Alexander Zebina (128-123 BC). Once all ties were cut with the Seleucids, the 'A' was no longer used. At least that is one theory.
The reverse is the double cornucopia adorned with ribbons, pomegranate between horns, border of dots. The double cornucopia was one of the most popular religious symbols of the ancient world. On Hellenistic coins, the cornucopia is often associated with Tyche, the city of goddess, or Demeter, goddess of the earth. It was reinterpreted and given some Jewish meaning, perhaps connected with the fertility of the land of Israel. It may have been copied by Hyrcanus from a coin minted by Alexander Zebina, the Selucid king and friend of Hyrcanus.
Average weight is about 1.92 grams.
You'll find this in David Hendin's book Guide to Biblical Coins, Fifth Editon. #1132
John Hyrcanus I ruled from 135 BC until his death in 104 BC. He was the son of Simon and nephew of the folk hero Judah the Maccabee. According to Josephus, Hyrcanus was endowed with three godly gifts - temporal power, the dignity of a high priest and the gift of prophecy.
But when he died at the age of 60 after a 31 year reign, the young Jewish kingdom lost a great deal of prestige. The kingdow slowly descended into chaos after his son's and grandson's (Hyrcanus II, 67 and 63-40 BC) reign's came to an end. Then followed the Idumaean reign of the Herod's which lasted more than a century in various forms.
This coin Doucet is valued at between $35 and $150. And yours is in better than average condition.
Definetly a nice find.
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Eng5858's Avatar
United States
1316 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2012  02:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Eng5858 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Doucet,

great looking coin, now after oxos history lesson, I'm in search of my own.....very cool.....
Pillar of the Community
United States
1315 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2012  10:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
oxos, thanks for all that information, it's very helpful.

I knew there was an A at the top of obverse from these sellers description but I didn't know it's significance.

Also thanks for the Cornucopia-Zabina info. as I look for the 'Cornucopiae Trail'

Regards
Valued Member
oxos's Avatar
United States
422 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2012  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oxos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Normally I sit back and listen to the history of the Greek, Roman and Byzantine empires. It's great that I can contribute in the Biblical arena in a small way. I know just enough to get in trouble.

Plus it helps that I bought some good books on the subject!
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jessvc1's Avatar
United States
2596 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2012  1:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jessvc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All nice coins. These look very nice in this condition and great color too.
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