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 Replies: 1,279 / Views: 148,886 |
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Valued Member
Canada
221 Posts |
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Blargish: A bouquet sou pickup. Breton 684, LC-41A1. I've heard this referred to as the "Montreal Sou" and Charlton also indicates that it was struck in Montreal, but I've not been able to find any other references to its origin. Does anyone familiar with the series know of any examples that are struck over other tokens, as Breton 674's (LC-40, Jean Marie Arnault's Sou) often are? Any further information regarding LC-41's would be appreciated. @Blargish:I don't know if you've read it, but there was an article by Tim Grawey on the origins of Breton #684 in the December 2020 issue of the Canadian Numismatic Journal (Volume 65 - No. 8 - Page 362-365). I'm sorry if my English isn't perfect... I'm learning a little more every day.
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Valued Member
United States
178 Posts |
Thank you for the reference ainsivalavie! I have only very recently become an RCNA member, so I look forward to reading other articles from the past that I may have missed. After giving it a readthrough, it appears that not much is offered regarding origin past McLachlan's initial 1886 proposal that they are from a different maker than the other (Belleville) bouquet sous. However, the compositional differences that Grawey notes are interesting! I favour a Belleville origin for Br 684, notwithstanding the noticeable fabric differences. It uses the same letter punches as those used on Belleville dies! This was a recent observation that I noticed, especially with the R and E letter punches shown below. Breton 684 (LC-41A1)  Breton 686 (LC-30D). A known Belleville issue.  Comparison of high-grade examples would confirm this as fact. Interestingly, the obverse of my token of comparison, Br 686, is that used for the T. Duseaman token. Anyways, thought I'd share my Two Cents thus far. Thank you again ainsivalavie for bringing that article to my attention. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
823 Posts |
Here are 3 more LC-41A1 tokens. Although they don't look like they are overstruck, the 3 all have different planchets. Top one is 6.52 gm., lower left 5.79, lower right 4.91 (add .9 for the hole 5.00 gm.). Coloration is different and thickness also, so all from different sources. I'm hoping the bottom 2 are brass. When is someone going to set up a service to XRF coins ? When coin shows return it would be a great addition to be able to test your questionable coins and tokens and get a definitive answer for a couple of dollars.    |
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Valued Member
Canada
221 Posts |
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Blargish: I favour a Belleville origin for Br 684, notwithstanding the noticeable fabric differences. It uses the same letter punches as those used on Belleville dies! This was a recent observation that I noticed, especially with the R and E letter punches shown below. @Blargish: I have just checked among my Sou Bouquet, and I come to the same conclusion as you. I'm sorry if my English isn't perfect... I'm learning a little more every day.
Edited by ainsivalavie
02/13/2021 2:45 pm
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Valued Member
United States
178 Posts |
ainsivalavie, glad someone else sees it too! I suspect Br 684 may have been Belleville's first production of bouquet sous given their inconsistencies. The planchet differences TerryT illustrates are pretty interesting. I'm curious to see if the coin-turn variety (LC-41A2) has any noticeable differences from the A1's. I have a nicer example of one of those coming in the mail soon. And here is one that I've been looking to get for a while. My first Nova Scotia Thistle counterfeit, the 1832/82 NS-3D1. Some rim damage, but shows all the details I care about pretty well. Another potential Belleville product, maybe... NS-3D1, Co 282NS 
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Valued Member
Netherlands
115 Posts |
Acquired this week. Playing card token Br-572   |
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Moderator
 United States
189767 Posts |
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Acquired this week. Playing card token Br-572 Very nice!  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
Heritage Auctions last night, the Patrick Collection It was really nice to see Canadian colonials fetching some very strong prices, of course that also limited my purchase to 1 out the 4 I was going after. Presenting Lower Canada brass Overstruck "Bouquet" Sou Token, 16 cherry leaves, 5 shamrocks variety, Struck over an imitation Tiffin Token 1812  |
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Valued Member
United States
178 Posts |
I was a big fan of those Br 674 overstrikes; the one struck over the brass 1781 North American Token was pretty exceptional (shockingly they put the estimate at a mere 100-150!) I was looking to snag one of those, but ended up deciding to go all-in on one of the Riseing Sun Tavern blacksmiths only to come up short... Better luck next time!
Was great to see such a wide variety of colonial issues attract strong bidding.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1081 Posts |
@Wade - very nice! I missed that one - there was just so much to look at. In hindsight, it's probably good that I didn't get everything I bid on because it means I will be able to put food not he table this month....
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1081 Posts |
@Blargish - yes the price estimates were a little random. Even comparing with the notoriously unreliable Charlton guide, many of them made no sense. Particularly the coins with higher grades.
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Valued Member
Canada
221 Posts |
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Heritage Auctions last night, the Patrick Collection It can be said that we colonial token collectors have been truly lucky over the past decade with the number of important collections that have been released. From Robins, Temple, Cooper, Ford, Landon, Newman, Sherbrooke Seminary in the last few weeks, to the Patrick collection, and more... I don't know if the next decade will be as good in this respect... but I hope so  I'm sorry if my English isn't perfect... I'm learning a little more every day.
Edited by ainsivalavie
03/22/2021 12:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
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one struck over the brass 1781 North American Token I was the under-bidder on that one, and that was after going $300 over my limit.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
669 Posts |
I was amazed at most of the low estimates. And at some of the final prices. I had over 100 pieces tagged. Made some casual bids on over 40, got blown out on the 3 I really wanted (a PE-4 Sheaf of Wheat, LC-10 Side View, and UC-11 Jamaica Cask), but ended up with 3 wins - Two of LC-5A Banque du Peuple Sou variants and a proof 1842 LC-2B Front View.
Next month is part 2.
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Moderator
United States
189767 Posts |
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Presenting Lower Canada brass Overstruck "Bouquet" Sou Token, 16 cherry leaves, 5 shamrocks variety, Struck over an imitation Tiffin Token 1812 Very nice! |
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Posted 02/09/2021 8:26 pm
