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West Coast Flooded With Denver Coins, East Coast With Philly

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DCM Coins's Avatar
United States
446 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2016  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DCM Coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here in Tucson almost all coins encountered in change are "D" coins. Those that are "P" are 20 years old or so, though once in a great while a new one shows up.

"S" cents fomr 68-74 are found here on occasion.
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BadThad's Avatar
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19963 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2016  11:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One cool thing I've enjoyed on this forum is exchanging boxes with members on the opposite coast. It's ALWAYS appreciated on both sides!
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kbbpll's Avatar
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2016  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
dcunitedfan, I went through my quarter can. It represents about a year of circulation about 60 miles north of Denver. Out of 692 quarters, 530 are D (77%) and 162 are P (23%). All were accumulated within 5 miles of my house - grocery, liquor stores, coffee shops, etc.

I then split up the Ps by decade:
60s 25
70s 17
80s 30
90s 40
00s 50

I expected that the vast majority of coins would be D, since the mint is so close. However, the decade distribution of Ps seems to indicate that it doesn't take that long for coins to travel - there are more from recent decades. Oddly, zero P mints from the 2010s though. I was surprised by the number of 1960s still kicking around, mostly 65 and 66. I was also surprised by the number of bicentennial quarters still out there - 7 of them (3 D, 4 P). The latter are the two smaller separated piles in the first photo.

I was too lazy to split up the Ds by decade, but I figure it's probably a pretty even distribution correlated with mintage. I did notice as I separated them that a 1990s coin had about an even chance of being P, but that's non-scientific. The 1990s saw a large influx of people to Colorado (which has continued since). And of course tourist traffic is high as well - the local coffee shop has a shelf lined with coins from all over the world.

Separated by mint:
West-Coast-Flooded-With-Denver-Coins,-East-Coast-With-Philly

P mint by decade, 60s at bottom:
West-Coast-Flooded-With-Denver-Coins,-East-Coast-With-Philly
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dcunitedfan's Avatar
United States
28 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2016  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dcunitedfan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the information! Interesting, I got a not-too-different high level result from 1000 nickels that I got from the bank earlier this month (with the obvious difference of the P mint being dominant, since I'm about 20 miles from the P mint)

count: 1000
d count: 212
p count: 785
s count: 2
canada: 1

I'll figure out a way to import your data. (Can you give me a zip code that would best fit your collection area?)

I am really looking for coin-level though, and I know not everyone is going to have the patience to make spreadsheet entries with each coin. If I can get enough people to do that though, I'll be able to fill the map in pretty well. It will probably start out with state-level for awhile. I would have to get a lot of contributors in different towns before there would be much gain in drawing a map at a smaller granularity than state level.


Edited by dcunitedfan
12/26/2016 4:29 pm
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moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2016  5:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Us folks in Minnesota get more Canadian coins. How do you figure that?
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NumisRob's Avatar
United Kingdom
17959 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2016  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've always been amazed by the geographical distribution of US coins on my various visits to America. In 2014 I went on a Panama Canal cruise that started in LA and finished in Tampa. I spent a few days on each coast before and after the cruise, so I definitely helped some Denver coins get to the East Coast! I only once remember getting a San Francisco coin in change - a 1970 (large date) cent in Chicago (apart from the 1969 S proof Kennedy half-dollar that I got in a customer wrapped roll from a bank in Richmond, Virginia).
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kbbpll's Avatar
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4233 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2016  6:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
dcunitedfan, 80525 is close enough. I'm not sure what "coin-level" data is going to tell you. Can you expand on what you think you might prove with such a detailed analysis?
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dcunitedfan's Avatar
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28 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2016  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dcunitedfan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One thing I'd like to illustrate is a series of maps of the relative percentages of P/D (and S) that are found in the same year of mint, and then compare that to 2 year old coins, 3 year old, etc. I expect we would see concentrations very high around Philadelphia and Denver of their respective product, with greater mixing over time.

This is really just an academic curiosity of mine. At a high level I think we can intuitively understand that coin concentrations far from the mint slow increase over time until you finally level off at a value that depends on where you live. I'm just hoping to show this in more concrete terms with maps.

I first got curious about this when trying to fill in my collections of circulating coins over the last couple of years, and noticing that I could find D mints if they were "old enough", recent ones were very hard to find in the Philadelphia suburbs. Presumably someone living in say Ohio would have a slightly easier time than me, but by how much? And how much easier in Indiana, or Illinois, or Missouri... I've now got some numbers that show how D coins show up around here in increasing numbers after they have had several years to circulate, but the results I see here are surely not the same everywhere.
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kbbpll's Avatar
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4233 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2016  9:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, you've got my results at least. Zero P quarters in a sample of 692 for the past 7 mint years. I think your results will be all over the map (literally).
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Mark1959's Avatar
7234 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2016  12:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm in Ohio but get mostly D mint nickles in CRH!
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dcunitedfan's Avatar
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28 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2016  09:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dcunitedfan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This may help illustrate why I'm looking for a list of the exact year/mint for each coin, along with where and when the coins were found. I've already seen in my own collection that D coins don't show up very often at all until a few years have passed since the mint date (eg for 2016, going back in time I start seeing them in greater numbers 5 years back, or 2011). kbbpll, you've seen similar results from the D side of the map. That leads me to the hypothesis that it takes maybe 5 years or so for coins show travel throughout the US in sufficient numbers to show up in greater than 5% of the results for their year.

To prove this out, I need real data that I can count and graph. Grouping coins by decade might be workable for this one specific hypothesis, but it probably won't be sufficient if I come up with other ideas to test. Also I'd like to do a series of maps showing the find patterns for same year, previous year, n - 2 years, n - 3, etc. That can't be done properly without coin level data.

Which is why I'm looking for an accurate census of whatever portion of coins that people feel like taking. Say you are a CRHer and get a box of nickels. I don't necessarily need a spreadsheet with all 2000 - if you only feel like doing a spreadsheet for a couple of rolls, that's still something. More is better of course from the standpoint of sampling accuracy, but the more can come from more people in the same area or from a single person doing more coins, it should make no real difference either way. And even small samples will be of great value to me if they come from different states, since I'm starting from no data at all in most of the US right now.

It's probably abstract sounding without some examples of the graphs I'm hoping to come up with, but right now I have so little geographic coverage that I can't begin to generate a map from real data. If you google "choropleth map" you'll see what I'm aiming to produce. I think it's going to be sort of a slow start, chicken-and-egg thing where the map I would produce now would have almost no geographic variation and so be pretty uninformative, but once I can get my hands on a few samples from across the country, it will start showing the differences I'm talking about, and then I hope as I can publish maps of greater detail, more people will be inspired to contribute some data, and the map will improve further.
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Mayflower2020's Avatar
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624 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2016  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mayflower2020 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really like the concept but think that your sample sizes may be very small compared to how many coins are out there.

I am intetested though to see the data from the Mississippi River states. Is it 50/50 there? What about Alaska which is distant from both?

Its a big undertaking. From your excitment its easy to see your passion for it.

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dcunitedfan's Avatar
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28 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2016  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dcunitedfan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Funny but I was just thinking earlier today that the same thing that the most likely "battleground" between P and D will be either the Mississippi bordering states, or perhaps somewhere in the midwestern states (Mark1959's observation started making me wonder if the Appalachians are the true divider)

The S pattern will be interesting too, but now that so much time has passed since they made business strikes, a much more distant echo.

Re sample sizes - got to start somewhere. The larger the better of course.
Edited by dcunitedfan
12/28/2016 11:35 am
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dcunitedfan's Avatar
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28 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2017  1:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dcunitedfan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've finally got enough of my code implemented that I can produce a map, and done enough work on the website that it's time to announce it. Check out http://coincensus.org - I've taken another stab at describing what I'm hoping to accomplish, and provided some examples of the raw data that I'm looking for as well as a choropleth map of the US with the data I have so far (entirely from PA, with one file temporarily attributed to NY simply to show the contrast between results in more than one state). Any questions, let me know - questions in forum posts are probably best for now.

kbbpll, I made a csv file from your numbers. It's somewhat "alternate facts" since you didn't provide exact dates for the coins, so I had to mock it up by pretending that you had 25 1960 Ps, 17 1970 Ps, etc.

The reason I want exact dates is that I want to be able to show diffusion over time. I expect that we will see dense concentrations of coins clustered at the mint sites when T = 1 years (find date same as mint date) and that the cloud slowly diffuses and spreads out over a larger geographic area for later values of T. So for example, a coin will be used in the T = 5 year map if it was found in 2017 and minted in 2013, or found 2010 and minted 2006. That's why I need exact dates. Grouping by decade loses so much precision. I've already seen in numbers how the find rate for D coins here in the Philly burbs is low, single digit percentages, until about 9 years after mint, when it finally rises above 10% of all coins 9 years old. To me (and it's an arbitrary cutoff) that's about where it feels that Ds are prevalent enough that one doesn't have to sort through ridiculous numbers of coins to fill in collection gaps. And I'm sure that one crosses that threshold a lot sooner closer to Denver, but can't demonstrate it without a lot more data.

So, your work from before is part of the map now too, and that's the first data I didn't collect myself, so thanks!
Edited by dcunitedfan
03/31/2017 6:52 pm
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