| Author |
Replies: 55 / Views: 10,523 |
|
|
|
Valued Member
58 Posts |
 And yes rounding up 4 cents with sales tax to get to the nearest nickel will mean something to poor people. Every store I've been to rounds up not down.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
@Earle, you raise some very good points, but I struggle to imagine that many people were happy in 1965 when it was announced that the half, quarter and dime would be replaced with funny money. The thing about the cent and nickel is that they have no value. Value is an emergent property of those denominations, only appearing when you have a sufficient number to actually make a purchase. The lowest price I have ever seen for anything in a brick and mortar store is 10 cents for a mint in a Chinese restaurant. Why are we clinging to a denomination that is worth so little that a small pile is required to purchase a breath mint? Yeah, they do add up, but so do mills. I don't storm into a gas station and demand four Mills when they round up to the nearest cent. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Coins are durable. We have billions of them. Just because we don't make them does not mean we have to recall them or confiscate them. 2 and 3 cent coins were still puttering around circulation channels in the 1900s and 1910s. The cent could ride its momentum for another 10 years easily, and the nickel could easily last another 50 (just look at the 1964 nickels). But back on topic, I do sometimes get dollar coins specifically to spend. Usually I get a curious look and a small comment about not seeing these everyday. I was once stopped at a restaurant for a dine and dash because the waitress thought my SBA dollars were quarters, and I had a cashier refuse some Prez $ because she thought they were novelty tokens. Never had a chance to try Ikes because they are impossible to get for face these days.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Quote: @Earle, you raise some very good points, but I struggle to imagine that many people were happy in 1965 when it was announced that the half, quarter and dime would be replaced with funny money. Exactly - which was another abuse of power and has us now suffering under the current problems we have with our cons becoming of no value. However similar the problem, it does not justify the government taking more illegal actions. Outside the obvious (but impossible b/c of corruption in government and the Fed not wanting to give up their omnipotence inherent with being allowed to make as much money as they please) of a PM basis being re-instituted, a devaluation such that a penny has spendable value would be another solution. So outside the PM solution which would work, polymer notes which last could replace bills and alleviate the problem of people not wanting dollar coins (and the related problems most advocates are either unaware of or ignore - plenty of former threads on the reality of these problems being shown as credible fact). Devaluation and polymer notes is the Mickey Mouse cure. Pm is the real cure, but politically will never be allowed b/c of corruption - look into the Liberty Dollar Case where the FBI admits they did wrong, are returning the actual PM they confiscated (unhgeard of!), and the whole purpose was to take out a movement which was making people very PM aware. It was political, illegal, but they accomplished their goal. It's sad we live in a day such as this in America.
|
|
Valued Member
58 Posts |
 wishing for the days when currency had actual value and not just a promise of lying politicians behind them as to their value.
|
|
Moderator
 United States
188952 Posts |
Quote: The thing about the cent and nickel is that they have no value.  Quote: And yes rounding up 4 cents with sales tax to get to the nearest nickel will mean something to poor people. It will not get rounded up.  Rounding goes up or down to the nearest. We already do it for sales taxes to the nearest cent.
|
|
Moderator
 United States
188952 Posts |
Quote: Constitutional authority (or gall to force Americans who better knew and treasured governmental restrictions in the Constitution) to force us to use the SBAs when they came out by eliminating the $1.00 bill. Actually, they do have the authority. The Constitution gives the government the authority to coin money, it does not require anything more specific than that. So it is up to them whether we get notes or coins and we have to accept it. Having specific denominations in specific materials is not a Constitutional right. By the way, I had to remove large portions of your post. It would have been fine in general discussion, but not there.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
I agree that this is likely true in most cases of rounding, but also would not put it past some to take advantage. I would think it depends on who/what/where is rounding and how much perceived apathy the masses will exhibit and not com,plain if wrong rounding took place. I can see some saying, "after all - that small an amount is trivial anyway... right?"
Small amounts add up quickly on a grand scale. I can see a .5 percent being put on a tax rate as a way of politically trying to soften the idea of hiking tax while still raking in a bundle daily. Ask gas stations why they have .9 on each gallon. Years ago in Canada I remember seeing the decimal point per liter (how they sell it) fluctuate though in what was an apparent competition of pricing.
|
|
Moderator
 United States
188952 Posts |
Quote: I can see a .5 percent being put on a tax rate as a way of politically trying to soften the idea of hiking tax while still raking in a bundle daily. Yes. As I said before, Charleston has an 8.5% sales tax (which works just fine without a Half Cent, and will do just as fine without the cent). Even whole number tax rates have to be rounded at times; there is no sorcery here, just common math. 
|
|
Valued Member
58 Posts |
Back on topic I personally don't carry dollar coins because I hoard them all. There will always be people on either side of the penny debate. I just think it's inevitable but it's sad because it is due to inflation.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
4883 Posts |
Quote: Never had a chance to try Ikes because they are impossible to get for face these days. A "wholesaler" who goes around to my area's coin shops was buying their Ikes at a 5% premium. However, I still can on occasion get them from my bank. I suspect they're showing up there on account of small hoards found in estates, as sometimes they're obviously uncirculated.
Colligo ergo sum
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
The dollar coins are getting rare around me. I never see them anymore. Even at banks, they used to have them on the counter but no more. And they used to ask if you want some, and they don't do that anymore either. I've had enough bad luck trying to spend those so I never use them.
|
|
Moderator
 United States
188952 Posts |
Quote: I just think it's inevitable but it's sad because it is due to inflation. Correct on both accounts. I have never said I was not going to miss it, just that it needs to go. I would love to see them retained in mint sets, with the original 95% copper composition as a bonus. 
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1068 Posts |
Quote: And what would happen is everyone would continue doing as they are now for 4 years 11 months and 2 weeks, that start screaming to the high heavens about having to "suddenly" change over to the elimination of those coins and the note. (And the government would probably then give them a five year extension, possibly the first of many.) Well not to get all political about it but it is a easy solution... After the 2nd or 3rd year you STOP printing dollar bills and mint nothing but dollar coins... But in reality, you would be giving five years to prepare for this, and if your not ready by then, then you have no one but yourself to blame...
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Look back one page at my previous post of why the US government had no right or authority to force this upon us. The important part is that it is such a sad day for our country when US citizens desire the government to force its citizens in areas it is not empowered, and has no rights whatsoever to do. The freedoms we have were bought with blood, yet modern people find no problem in handing them over. Its the current trend in media and educational programming.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
885 Posts |
The difficulty with acceptance of US dollar coins has more to do with the design of cash register drawers and the reluctance to change them than nearly anything else. As for rounding, I had an incident in circa 1978 at a local department store that had a food concession at the entrance. This was flamed by my passion for soft pretzels, the fact that I was hungry, and that I had limited cash in my pocket at the time. I am sure many here can still remember a time prior to debit cards. My state did/does not allow tax to be charged on food unless it is prepared "ready to eat" from a (insert many conditional constraints). The rules for this discussion are not as relevant as the math involved, the store policy, and deficient programming. This also predated the "leave a penny/need a penny" cup of today (which is another point of "what does it matter?"). In this case, tax was due. The deal was 2 soft pretzels for 23 cents. The state sales tax rate was/is 6% and the rule is that the vendor can collect 2 cents on sales of 18-34 cents. So I bought 4 pretzels at total 46 cents. The rule was/is that the vendor could collect 3 cents on sales of 35-50 cents but I was charged 46 cents for the goods and 4 cents for tax (8% tax). I had a discussion with the clerk who was, apparently, oblivious to mathematics and who further stated "that's the way we have to enter it in our cash register, 2x 23 cent purchases". A penny meant something in 1979 so I argued it a bit more. I asked what I would have to pay for 8 pretzels and the clerk said $1.00 - 92 cents for the goods and 8 cents for the tax - now nearly 9% tax. I knew I was going to lose (and was hungry) so I let it go. To get back to the current era of a "need a penny" cup for those that think a penny doesn't matter anymore...well I suppose you are going to see my point. If it doesn't matter, why does the "need a penny" cup exist?
|
| |
Replies: 55 / Views: 10,523 |