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Vietnam War 5 Parts Contest - To Commem "Black April Month"

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Bedrock of the Community
Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2011  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK - FINALLY found the answer for number 2:
2a. There were 9 generals forced into concentration/re-education camp and held 17 years. Following are their names and ranks.

a. Major General Le Minh Dao - Commander of the ARVN 18th Division Infantry
ARVN III Armor Brigade and III Corps Assault Task Force (ATF)

b. Major General Tran Ba Di (Superintendent of Quang Trung Military Training Center

c. Major General Hoang Lac - Deputy Commander of the 1st Corps

d. Major General Do Ke Giai - Commander of ARVN Ranger Forces

e. Brigadier General Pham Ngoc Sang - Commander of the VNAF 6th Air Division

f. Brigadier General Tran Quang Khoi - Ccommander of ARVN III Armor Brigade and III Corps Assault Task Force

g. Brigadier General Le Van Than - Deputy Commander of Saigon Military District

h. Brigadier General Mach Van Truong - Commander of the ARVN 21st Division Infantry

i. Brigadier General Pham Duy Chat - Commander of 2nd Corps Rangers

SNIP
What's the name/code of the last concentration camp that they were in?
SNIP
2b. These 9 generals were released from the "reeducation camp" of Ham Tan. General Do Ke Giai was the last General prisoner dropped off from the camp bus.


edited for grammar
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Edited by Earle42
06/04/2011 12:20 pm
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Tim Stroud's Avatar
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2661 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2011  06:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tim Stroud to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
OK - FINALLY found the answer for number 2:


Good job Earl!
Bedrock of the Community
Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2011  11:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Tim - you would think after what these men went through for the cause of freedom, that they would be better documented on the web. After this contest - I hope to make sure they are - IF Wickipedia will let it remain posted (they tend to slant towards the left on some issues I have noticed).
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Valued Member
Chriscoinmaster's Avatar
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337 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2011  12:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chriscoinmaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
cool contest. I will continue to read the questions and answers. Might post, but find the reading quite informative.
Bedrock of the Community
Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2011  01:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oops!

I need to replace my former entry of:

Quote:
c. Major General Hoang Lac - Deputy Commander of the 1st Corps

with:
c. General Huynh Van Lac - Deputy Commander of the AVRN 9th Division Infantry.

Major General Hoang Lac came to the states in 1975. And General Huynh Van Lac was in the reeducation camp (although I am not 100% sure if he was imprisoned for 17 years - the similarity of names made for a mixup).


How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Pillar of the Community
amassey08873's Avatar
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584 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2011  09:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amassey08873 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Silentasian Excellent contest with valuable History Lesson! My Uncle Tommy Served, His name is Thomas Massey from Hazlet NJ. I'm not sure the division. I'd ask him but Brain Cancer took him from us 6 months ago. My father Francis,aka Kitchi, aka Frank Massey was stationed to go but couldn't due to my uncle being their. My uncle Tommy like so many others never fully came back. I miss him...I make sure to shake the hand of any Vet, servicemen/women and Thank Them for their service! Regardless of any Politics. The hardship of being away from your family and loved ones deserves so much in its self. If your a Vet or currently serving, Thank You All for your Service! God Bless You! and thank you Silentasian. I can't watch enough of these videos. They bring me to tears instantly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkGz...ture=related
Edited by amassey08873
06/14/2011 12:04 pm
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SA4H's Avatar
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2764 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2011  6:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SA4H to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello everyone,

I've been busy/distracted in the last couple weeks and would not keep up with this contest. Since we didn't have many participants either; So, I have two options for you guys to choose:
1) End the contest (moved by Mod) and send the prizes out.
2) Continue w/ the contest (send request/appeal to Mod) and try to keep up til the end of 5 parts (as my original goal intended).

Thank you and please let me know.
Moderator
Learn More...
GO's Avatar
United States
6563 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2011  6:21 pm  Show Profile   Check GO's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GO to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sorry I thought it was already completed. I'll go ahead and move it back.
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SA4H's Avatar
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2764 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2011  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SA4H to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you. I'll post the next part's questions up tonight.... My fault for not keep everyone up to date. Thanks.
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Earle42's Avatar
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10038 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2011  7:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Whichever way you want to do it - cut it, or keep it going, is fine with me. I know the time I spent has been a good one for me. But I have plenty of time to research anything I want to anyway. I am disabled so I have 24/7 to sit at the computer. The only thing that limits me is health. For this reason, I might have a slight advantage - so I feel kind of funny giving an opinion to go on or stop.

So whatever best fits your busy schedule, go with this. While I I have appreciated the contest (especially the learning and research aspect which I love), I have a reference book to finish in another hobby of mine so I will not be at a lack of things to do :)

Thanks again

How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Pillar of the Community
SA4H's Avatar
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2764 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2011  4:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SA4H to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Part 3 : Facts/Figures:

Question 1: What's the estimated Combat Deaths per year of the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam)?

Question 2: How many RVN allied countries sent military personel to Vietnam?

Question 3: Please list the number of personel sent to Vietnam by those allied countries.

Question 4: What's the total number of US military personel served in Vietnam during the war?

Question 5: How many died during the war and how many POW/MIA during the war?


Result of Part 2 will be posted shortly:
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SA4H's Avatar
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 Posted 07/06/2011  7:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SA4H to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Part 2 Answer:

#1 is as Earl42 wrote

"1.The five ARVN generals who committed suicide (on April 30, 1975) before the fall of Saigon were:

a. Brigadier General Le Nguyen VY was the commander of the 5th Infantry Division at Lai Khe and committed suicide by pistol at 11:00 AM at the division headquarters

b. General Le Van Hung - the Hero of An Loc -- commanded the 5th Division of An Loc during the Easter Offensive in 1972. At the time of the suicide he was the deputy commander under Nguyen Khoa Nam.

c. Major General Nguyen Khoa Nam was the Commander of IV Corps and Military Region 4. He died at 11:30 PM.

d. General Pham Van Phu -- who was the Commander of II Corps/Military Region II in Pleiku. He died in Saigon.

e. Brigadier General Tran Van Hai who was the Commander of 7th Infantry Division at Dong Tam, near My Tho 1974--1975. He died at midnight at the Division HQ at the Dong Tam Army base."


#2 answers are correct, except part i. "Pham Duy Chat - Commander of 2nd Corps Rangers" is wrong the correct spelling is Pham Duy Tat (Colonel as of March 9, 1975 and field promoted to Brigadier General on March 13 (http://www.generalhieu.com/vncourier39.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...an_Me_Thuot).

Also, the concentration camp is called: Z30D aka Thá»§ Ãức Camp, Hàm tân.

Lastly, my source said Brigadier General Hoang Lac. Regarding "Hoang Van Lac", he's Deputy Commander, 1st Corps in 1972 (http://nguyentin.tripod.com/hvlac-2.htm) while he was a Colonel in 1968 (http://history.state.gov/historical...03/persons). So, I am not 100% sure either. I have to take time and find out about that.

Here's a good place to find Generals of RVN: http://nguyentin.tripod.com/danhtuong-2.htm

#3 answer:
a) Vo Nguyen Giap
b) General Văn Tiến DÅ©ng, General Lê Trá»ng Tấn covering Corp I and Corp II, General Hoàng Minh Thảo (real name: Tạ Thái An) - covering Corp III / Central Highland, General Trần Văn Trà - covering Corp IV / Southern Region.

Final points result:
Earle42 ===> 50 + 40 + 15 == 105
Tim Stroud ===> 50
Moe145 ===> 10


Thank you everyone for your participation, kind words and support.


Bedrock of the Community
Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 07/07/2011  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately the many sources I found were not all in agreement with one another about numbers of deaths/troops/et cetera. Some of this stems from people being meticulous in determining exactly what constituted what time period to include as the beginning and ending of the war (such as the deaths on the hijacking of the Mayaguaz container ship which occurred 2 weeks after the fall of South Vietnam but is still considered by some to be a part of the conflict). So after several hours of filtering through a bunch of different websites, I cited some of the sources I used as a reference.



"Question 1: What's the estimated Combat Deaths per year of the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam)?"
Answer:
A look into this shows many different estimates depending on which source you refer to. Here is a Wikipedia chart from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietna...#ARVN_Deaths

"year.......Regular.......RF/PF.......Para..........Total
1966........4,418.........7,535........ - ..........11,953
1967........6,110.........6,606........ - ..........12,716
1968........12,930.......11,393.......3,592.........27,915
1969........8,652........10,286.......2,895.........21,833
1970........9,647........11,738.......1,961.........23,346
1971........8,864........13,118.........756.........22,738
1972.............38,697.................890.........39,587
where RF/PF=Regional Force/Popular Force militia, Para=paramilitary forces"

Another website simply cites an "From 1969--1971 there were about 22,000 ARVN combat deaths per year" (http://www.factasy.com/vietnam_war/army.shtml).

The overall total estimates that I could find online vary with the extremes being given as 216,000 to 316,000.



"Question 2: How many RVN [sic] allied countries sent military personnel to Vietnam?"
Answer: The US, Philippines, Republic of Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Taiwan, and Spain -- for a total of 8.

The last 8 in the above list were actually under a coalition named the Free World Military Forces (FWMF)



"Question 3: Please list the number of personel [sic] sent to Vietnam by those allied countries."
Answer:
US -- 536,100
Philippines -- 10,450 (most of these were involved in medical and civilian pacification project efforts)
The FWMF members listed by country:
Australia: 7,626 (with more than 60,000 Aussie personnel involved during the course of the war)
Korea: 48,879
New Zealand: 552 (3000 actually served at different times during the war)
Taiwan (Republic of China) : 29 (although another source says, "there were several hundred military personnel" while citing: Moïse, Edwin E. (1996). Tonkin Gulf and the escalation of the Vietnam War (1996 ed.). UNC Press. ISBN 0807823007.)
Thailand: 11,568
Spain: 30 (10 1966/1967 - 20 1967/1968) Medical and sanitary forces.

This comes to a total of 69,864 soldiers, over two thirds of them Korean. Altogether, the US contributed over 1.4 million troops to the Vietnam War.



"Question 4: What's the total number of US military personel [sic] served [sic] in Vietnam during the war?"
Answer: http://www.uswings.com/vietnamfacts.asp states that, "2,709,918 Americans served in uniform in Vietnam."



"Question 5: How many died during the war and how many POW/MIA during the war?"
Answer:
If speaking only of US deaths:
58, 148 US personnel were killed during the war (http://www.mrfa.org/vnstats.htm cites 58,156 including the people formerly classified as MIA and casualties when the Mayaguez container ship was seized by Kampucheans 2 weeks after South Vietnam had fallen)

If speaking of total deaths on both sides:
This is a hard one to answer b/c of the numbers cited by numerous sources. This website: http://necrometrics.com/20c1m.htm#Vietnam has a huge list of sources covering the death tolls on both sides (military and civilian). It also has a list if cited death tolls per country. And although these numbers are for each country, the numbers differ depending on the source! The site, therefore, gives a median of total for the whole conflict of 2,850,000 and also totals the medians from the lists as being 3,000,000.

During the American phase of the war, the median of totals is 1,700,000 and total of the medians is 1,300,000


According to http://www.vhfcn.org/stat.html , concerning the POW-MIA issue, "While there are still officially more than 2200 MIA cases, there are only 55 incidents of American servicemen who were last seen alive but aren't accounted for."

According to http://www.uswings.com/vietnamfacts.asp, "As of January 15, 2004, there are 1,875 Americans still unaccounted for from the Vietnam War."




Edited to make the chart line up better and the info easier to sort through... although the chart still is not perfect in the final post but is in the submission
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Edited by Earle42
07/07/2011 6:58 pm
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XavierOfGreen's Avatar
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 Posted 07/21/2011  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add XavierOfGreen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The South Koreans sent over 300,000 men in total to vietnam, but they were split up amonst different tours of duty and the peak stregnth was less than 60,000 personel at one time. Unlike in the USA where a draft was required in order to meet troop quotas, the Koreans actually had surplus volunteers (they only sent volunteers to Korea) because they were getting paid so much more than if they were to work at home or if they were conscripted to stay home. Park Chung Hee, the ruler of South Korea at the time, even argued with the United States to continue the war and disregard the paris peace talks simply because South Korea was making so much money off the war (the USA paid the South Korean troops salaries and also gave tons of aid money to South Korea in exchange for its involvement in Vietnam).

An excellent film about a South Korean soldiers experience in the Vietnam War is White Badge. It shows a side of the war that most Americans arn't familiar with. I seriously doubt that many Americans know there were other countries fighting along side the USA in the war.

I think one of the most interesting aspects of the War is that the USA wouldnt launch a ground invasion of North Vietnam due to fears that the Peoples Republic of China would retaliate, but that by 1969 the Chinese pulled all their troops out of Vietnam and cut aid to the communists after the 1969 sino-soviet split. Bbefore then they actually had about 100,000 troops in North Vietnam manning antiaircraft batteries and auxiliary tasks. If we had invaded the North in 1970 and razed Hanoi to the ground, South Vietnam likely would have won the war. The Viet Cong had basically wiped themselves out after the tet offensive in 1968 and afterwords it was mostly regular North Vietnamese military units doing most of the fighting all we needed to do was destroy the Norths conventional warmaking capability and the South could have won the war on their own.

-XavierOfGreen (a east asian studies minor and military history enthusiast)
Edited by XavierOfGreen
07/21/2011 10:02 pm
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Earle42's Avatar
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 Posted 08/21/2011  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Waiting for another "homework assignment"

Hope everything is OK?
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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