Julius Caesar Real Or Fake? - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 9 / Views: 4,392
Bing Pillar of the Community United States 4253 Posts	Posted 07/21/2011 3:21 pm I wish I had joined this forum a long time ago. I have a large collection of Ancients and am slowly going through with my new found knowledge trying to identify fakes. This Julius Caesar I have had for some time now. It has been a subject of my pride every time I bring out my coins. However, I now believe it may be fake based on things I have read on this forum. I dread the answer to this but I must ask. Is it real or fake? It is well toned, weighs 3.23 grams, and is 18 mm wide Report this Post to the Staff

echizento Moderator United States 23731 Posts	Posted 07/21/2011 10:16 pm I believe this coin is a foree as evident from the inner core showing on the reverse. Report this Post to the Staff
Bing Pillar of the Community United States 4253 Posts	Posted 07/21/2011 10:55 pm Echizento, can you explain what you mean. I don't see an "inner core" and, if you are correct, what would it men about the coin? Just exactly what is a foree? Report this Post to the Staff
aboarman Valued Member United States 132 Posts	Posted 07/22/2011 02:01 am I have no idea what a "foree" is either. I looked it up, and didn't find any words matching it... As for your coin...I hate to say it, but I think it may be a fake. Here's why: >The weight is really off for a JC denarius. During that time, they were minted weighing 3.8 grams and were 19mm wide. The coin just doesn't look as if it has lost 20% of it's weight. >The edge is very hard >There appears to be a seam running all the way around it I really really hope that I am wrong - and that if I'm not, you didn't spend to much! Report this Post to the Staff
sel_69l Bedrock of the Community Australia 21794 Posts	Posted 07/22/2011 02:16 am When I am buying an ancient, I always like to have the coin in hand to examine it. You can't do that with ebay, even if the seller is good. So most of my ancients come from coin shows, reputable dealers or auctions. Thirty years ago, I bought an aureus of Claudius from Spinks in London, but I had to sell it as part of a collection when I bought my first house. That coin was sold to a dealer, and it has remained in his personal collection ever since. The profit for me? A long standing numismatic friendship that has served us both very well for more than three decades. Edited by sel_69l 07/22/2011 02:18 am Report this Post to the Staff
tokenmast Pillar of the Community United States 648 Posts	Posted 07/22/2011 02:38 am also spelled fourre [eBayItem]350382099316[/eBayItem] mostly spelled fouree [eBayItem]170666223975[/eBayItem] from the French " filled " I believe the 2ND one may be close to what echizento was talking about Quite collectible in their own right ! Report this Post to the Staff
Sap Moderator Australia 17012 Posts	Posted 07/22/2011 03:20 am A "fouree" (variously spelled) is a die-struck counterfeit that was made back in ancient times, intended to circulate as a denarius. Back then, they didn't have the various kinds of plating technology we have today. To give their base-metal counterfeits a silvery look, they'd take the blob of brass they were going to use as the core of their coin, and wrap a layer of silver foil around it. This would then be struck, creating a coin with a brass core inside a "sandwich" of silver. Fourees would have been convincing back when they were new. But after being buried in the ground for 2000 years, their nature often becomes evident, as the core corrodes faster than the outer silver layer and breaks through in places. If it is a fouree, it's just as much an authentic ancient artefact as a genuine ancient coin, and for many ancients collectors just as collectable (and usually just as valuable, if not more so). I'm not quite sure where echizento sees the evidence for it - perhaps under the armpit of the reverse. I'm not familiar enough with fourees to call this one way or the other. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis Report this Post to the Staff
Bing Pillar of the Community United States 4253 Posts	Posted 07/23/2011 08:53 am 1. I do not see a seam. Perhaps the pics may look like there is a seam, but in hand there is a crack along only one small part of the coin. 2. I am uncertain about this being a Fouree. I do not see any evidence of a base metal showing through, but I will defer to the experts on this issue. 3. Fouree or denarius, the coin is beautiful in hand. As long it is not a fake beyond an ancient counterfeit coin, I am pleased with this coin. Thanks to all for your opinions. I learn more each day I am a member. Sometimes I surprise myself and even sound like I know what I'm talking about. Report this Post to the Staff
bobbyhelmet Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 2838 Posts	Posted 07/24/2011 05:11 am As in your other thread giving my opinion but certainly not the best qualified on the forum to give opinions on these. I cant find any fakes matching this. The 'R' in 'Caesar' and the size of Venus' 'bun' are a little different to the norm but not anything to give grave doubts about. The style of Aeneas looks fine too. All in all the style looks 'right' to me. Its possible its a fouree where the base metal is corroding through the surface silver rather than showing through on high point wear but cant really say much on that issue. The edge looks OK and the size is fine. The weight is perhaps a little on the light side (may lean towards echizentos fouree theory) but not sure if its too a point that would worry me, it seems about 10-15% lighter than the norm. The colours in the photo dont look great but I think thats just down to the pictures - its very hard to get the colour balance right as I know all to well! JC coins are popular with fakers but from these pics I dont see any reason to dismiss this as such. Report this Post to the Staff
bobbyhelmet Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 2838 Posts	Posted 07/24/2011 05:44 am More on JC Fourees and yet another spelling : http://www.emigh.org/numis/fourree/fourree8.html Contemporary fakes such as fourees, barbarous and otherwise unofficial coins are certainly nothing to worry about having in your collection. I collect barbarous copies of Tetricus I & II and often they are more interesting and sell for higher prices than the 'official' coins. A few of mine here: https://goccf.com/t/60205 Many believe some fourees were made in the official mints by the official workforce though the exact reason for this is unknown - undoubtedly it has something to do with cost and profiteering but who was behind it we will prob never know. Barbs are similarly a bit of a mystery. Some say its the locals (hence barbarous) trying to make a quick buck, others think they were semi-officially produced in times of currency and metal shortage. My opinion is that both went on as some are such good quality that they could pass for the real thing easily and some are such bad quality (and small) that its impossible that that could happen. I'm selling a Magnentius coin on ebay at the minute that I cant 100% say either way is barbarous or not. Some believe that 50% of surviving Magnentius coins are indeed 'unofficial', just goes to show how wide spread some of these unofficial coins were. Report this Post to the Staff
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