|
This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!
To participate in the forum you must log in or register. | Author |
Replies: 5,649 / Views: 461,144 |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
Ebay.....well...I have to admit that it does have market presence. And I admit that I do some supplemental selling on ebay. But lets talk about Gold. First I'll do the numbers then I'll shift real fast over to ebay and look at completed sales. Using 1400/oz for Gold as the baseline for this discussion; and noting that eBay/Paypal have 13 percent fees. We see that we need a sell price of $1582/oz of Gold to break even. So lets go see what the selling prices are....back in a minute. NGC 2009 MS70 Buffalo, for $1595; free shipping. Three Maples ($50c) for $4473.40 free shipping. 1/10 oz round; $170, $6 shipping One ounce Maple $1441, free shipping. 1/10 oz Panda; $200, free shipping. Those were the first five I came across and a glance at some others, tenth ounces, around the $158 level. The first one, is 1595-1583 (break even point)-$6 shipping and insurance, gives us a sell at $9 over spot. The second one, is $4473.40/3 equals $1491.13 each; minus 13 percent ($193.85) and minus $6 shipping and insurance gives us $1292/oz or about $108 each below spot. The tenth ounce at $170-6(shipping)=164 minus 13 percent equals $142.68. Much better but still not much profit above spot. In fact $2.68. I could go on but you can see that there is either no profit above spot; or very little above spot on ebay. I get better profit margins off of Walking Liberty halves; so why sell gold on eBay/
|
|
Valued Member
United States
317 Posts |
Regardless of what economic group Indians are in they would rather have their money/earnings in gold because of the current status of the rupee.
And its easy to obtain gold, all they have to do is go down to a bank. There are lots of very small offerings so almost everyone can afford gold with one of the lowest denominations being half a gram.
Grams not ounces!
From one of the largest banks in India' website, ICICI bank:
Does ICICI Bank sell gold / silver through ICICI Bank Net Banking and through its branches?
Yes, ICICI Bank sells 99.99% Pure Gold / Silver through ICICI Bank Net Banking and its branches.
What are the weight options for purchasing ICICI Bank Pure Gold / Silver? ICICI Bank Pure Gold is available in 0.5 g, 1 g, 2.5 g, 5 g, 8 g, 20 g and 50g weight options. On special request 100 g and 1 kg bars are also sold. ICICI Bank 99.99% Pure Silver is available in 50g and 100g weight options.
In what variants are ICICI Bank Pure Gold sold? Subject to availability at the branches, the following variants of gold are available; · • 0.5 g circular coin, · • 1 g circular coin, · • 2.5 g oval coin, · • 2.5 g heart shape, · • 2.5 g Ganesh oval coin, · • 5 g circular coin, · • 5 g heart shape, · • 5 g Laxmi-Ganesh oval coins, · • 5 g Laxmi oval coin, · • 5 g Balaji oval coin, · • 5 g Guru Nanak oval coin, · • 5 g Ganesh oval coin, · • 8 g circular coin, · • 8 g Laxmi oval coin, · • 20 g circular coin, · • 20g rectangular bar and 50 g rectangular
Everytime gold falls, India steps in to buy because of their currency problems.
And I see more than a few people able to buy half a gram of gold in India.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: Here's a chart showing Indian middle class exponentially growing since '02. More jobs (in part thanks to Bush) is more money to spend on gold. More jobs and money means more people get married which in turn means more gold is bought. True but you also have to account for the massive price increase. I wouldnt disagree with the marriage boom theory, I would say though that has to slow down at some point I'm sure. Quote: Regardless of what economic group Indians are in they would rather have their money/earnings in gold because of the current status of the rupee.
Theres more too it that that, but the real ironic part is that their love of Gold is part of whats destroying the rupee
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
AT todays prices thats about 310 rupees per tenth gram.
Thats about 3 days wages for the average worker.
A software Engineer, for example, can buy about 10 ounces a year ( at 360,000 rupees/yr)if he or she doesn't eat, pay rent, drive,or buy anything else.
But be serious for a minute. 1/10th of a gram is 0.003 troy ounce.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
317 Posts |
You lost me, gold is around $1400 an ounce. Aren't there about 28 grams in an ounce? $1400/28=$50 a gram.
According to wiki "median income of someone in India is $1219", and buying of ½ grams is available so they can afford this.
That's only $25 out of $1219 so they can buy it even with other expenses.
Even with the crash of their money, $25 isn't going to kill someone over there, its hard but not going to kill them. And their culture actively supports the buying ofgold.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
...Your daily cynical moment....
The COT data is a week old when published right?
This week we learned the funds are going long again, or so said kitco.
And the funds are still not anywhere near fully divested of their holdings in the ETFs.Though they have liquidated a sizable sum.
Soooooooo, would it be possible to start to go long, then when the general public learns I/we are going long ( a week late) they pile on....happy days are here again.....and then right before the September anouncement of Fed Tapering...go short and make massive profits?
Now please don't yell "conspiracy theory". I'm a retired Detective and have arrested lots of people for criminal conspiracy. If you don't think the big boys don't do the same thing as the little guys, you're sadly mistaken. In fact laws were passed a hundred years ago because the big boys were so blatant in their Conspiracy to set prices, wages, ect. Do you think their morals have seriously changed in what is widely being touted as the "Age of Greed". In a time when I have seen headlines and symposiums that say "Greed is Great for the Economy"?
Anyway, just asking if this is possible.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
Actually I just used the google converter. And you forget, they are not being paid in USD, they are being paid in Rupees, so you have to look at that.
Also we were talking about 10th/grams. Which I guess makes it more affordable. But according to your conversion and my reading that makes a tenth gram about $5. But $5 is still three DAYS wages at the lower end.
And well, not being a smart ass, but do you know what median income really means?
Take the town I live in, Newark Ohio. According to the Census bu. the median income is 37k. Ahhhh...ok...according to the City Tax Department; 90 percent of the citizens of this city make less than 23k. But we dooooo have a more than a few millionaires.
If I make a Million a year, and you make $1. Our median income is 500k.
So lets use your figure and say that the working poor make about 80 percent of the median, and that's benignly generous, and so make about $960 a year. Thats about $80 a month and after taxes they bring home $55/wk? So ONE Gram would represent nearly a whole months pay. What did I say for 1/10 gram? 3 days? Hmmm 3 times 10 is a month and 10 times 1/10g equals One gram....I guess I did do the math correctly.
You're thinking like an American where we can go out and drive to the Mall ( and use $5 worth of gas); buy a pack of Cigarettes ( I don't smoke,but hey..another $5); a Soda ( $2) and some munchies ($3) look around not buy anything and drive back home thinking we didn't spend any money. When in fact we spent $15, or about 24 percent of the weeks take home wages of the working poor in India.
Just sayin....
|
|
Valued Member
United States
317 Posts |
jm,
Regardless of their status they are going to take whatever they have and buy gold. Gold to them is not like a luxury item like it is in the western world. This isn't a can of soda or a pack of gum or a video game consul or a new car, a piece of art, your favorite classic book or whatever you want to fill in. Gold is something very serious to them.
It is a necessity because gold plays an ancient role in their culture, especially the wedding ceremonies. There is a reason why a country that has a such a low per capita is probably the biggest gold consumer in the world. They are going to buy gold regardless of how much they make.
lolol It doesn't matter if they work the whole year and made only the equivalence of $1, some of that $1 will be put into a spec and put into a container. lolol
the point is its based on cultural traditions to have gold that dates back a very very very long time, and how much someone makes doesn't matter that's one reason why someone can go into a bank and get half a gram so people can partake in having gold when they don't make a lot.
And the $1219 estimate is rupee equivalent.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1448 Posts |
Some people like to convert all of their money to precious metals...I am someone who would like to have a decent amount of my money in precious metals because it really can be a hassle to keep up with all of the prices.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
Sure, I get that it is a cultural thing. I really do. But even if they took every single penny of disposable income and bought gold; well how much can they afford. Really afford, not pie in the sky. Even if they took 1/12 of their yearly income and bought gold they still get 1 gram. So; $50 worth of gold a year?
And while I know the wedding season is the biggie. The trades all blather on about how Indian buying is sustainable and growing ALL YEAR LONG.
Lets face it the poor are going to take their $50 and spend it mostly during the wedding/festival season. Not spread out through the year. And if they do spread their $50 out through the year, thats less than $5 a month.
That's my point. There is no "Indian miracle" that is going to sustain higher gold prices day in and day out.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
@jenger
Good question my friend.
I think still the following-
1- silver and gold remain under a downtrend. Until they can prove by their price action that they can overcome certain price points, they are still in a downtrend.
2- I would like to be proven wrong by gold and silver, rather than to just say "ok the worst is done." Action by silver and gold in filling the most recent gaps to me is constructive and key. However, this is all a process that takes time.
3- I know this following concept will gather a lot of gasps and most everyone will say thats not how you make money, but I dislike and I NEVER buy declining assets or broken ones. Why? Because I have NO CLUE where or how much more exactly they can fall. Rather, I like to always buy high and sell higher. I need to see price confirm the move. Thats my safety net and has worked for me for a long time.
With all those points mentioned and getting to your question- I think if you are buying in "nibbles" and doing so by buying coins that are semi or completely numismatic in value, this dip and under 25 makes sense. You need some sort of cushion if prices continue to slide. Bullion coins will not offer you any sort of cushion.
So yes, I think its still too risky to keep stacking and I think at BEST right now, at a snap shot, gold and silver are broken assets. There is nothing to say they remain in a range and do nothing. So again, if you are going to buy right here, right now, if you must, nibble, but go for quality over quantity. I think the lower price in silver and gold IS helpful if you are filling out your collection and looking for those missing coins that cost more before with the higher prices.
However, for now, as an investment, I view silver and gold as broken at best. Instead of buying it here, I would rather see prices rise first and CONFIRM they are out of their downtrends, even if I had to high buyer. That would be the safety net... because theres nothing worse than being underwater with your purchases, even if one says they are in it for the long term.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
317 Posts |
jm,
You realize that those poor desolate Indians account for over 30% of all the gold consumed in the world every year?
And guess who saved gold from going under $1000 a few weeks ago when we watched gold fall?
The Chinese and guess who else bought huge amounts of gold? It wasn't the traders. Actually there were a few governments, but guess who bought huge amount of gold while gold was depreciated.
My point is they are a market maker for gold.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
As far as India-
My thing again is this- The Indian currency and markets been suffering for a while now, even before it was news. They had been declining since about mid May. What was happening to gold and silver? It was also declining.
I don't see at all what hedge silver and gold has provided investors who have tied their money in the indian markets.
I think its clear that rising interest rates have affected emerging markets such as India, which are has beens. Furthermore, no amount of buying has really cranked up the needle on prices. So to me, India is a non factor in rising gold prices.
Gold is part of the heritage and culture of india, its part of their religion even. But even all that hasnt been able to propel gold prices to the moon.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
@Jim
yes, the COT is not real time market data. There is a delay as it is published. Furthermore, the COT doesn't necessarily reflect whats really going on. As I have said many times, if the data says one thing, but price is doing another, well only price matters, because price never lies.
Its interesting you mention this today. In some interaction with other traders, they also basically have in their game book that plan you outlined- sell before or into the FOMC meeting in September and or when the NFP numbers come out this month.
So yes, its possible the perfect storm is here. A squeeze on late short sellers, a nutty month in the markets, a squabble in the middle east... (which the MARKETS DONT CARE ABOUT AND DO NOT VIEW AS SERIOUS) I use all caps to emphasize how unimportant Syria and any US action taken. You will read all about the financial media saying how the markets were rattled by comments by so and so etc etc. Fact is the market has been heavy as of late, seasonality is against it etc, so volatility should be expected in markets.
But back to my earlier point- yes, I think this "noise" out of Syria is the perfect storm to see a run up in prices and just as everyone gets comfortable that gold and silver are back, poof.
Now, it is constructive what gold and silver have done. There are trades and money to be made in this run up. However, I remain skeptical because this sort of heavy selling causes technical damage and its not resolved 1-2-3 and we are back to higher prices and everyone is happy again.
So yes, its entirely possible. Obviously gold and silver are being bought. Whos buying it? Is it real solid buying? Theres been decent volume. The price action has been interesting to see it fill gaps. I always trust price. But as these prices rise, they will run into heavy resistance.
Heres a scenario to chew on- whats to say, we actually get this gap from 4/15 filled... but it happens say on the day of FOMC minutes released and then drops from there? Then from there price reverse... again this is just a scenario. I will always respect price but my point is- it has memory and coincides with events that either propel or stop it in its track.
That is why it is best to just watch, take level by level and the full picture becomes known in time, just follow the trends until they tell you its time to hop off.
Finally, let me repeat myself- I will always respect the price action. Its really the only thing that tells me whats really going on. Price along with the element of time gives us clues and gives us a good idea of where things are going. No matter what my thoughts or opinions are, the market will always be right. If gold and silver are ready to break the downtrend and move on, then I will respect that and I;ll see it. Conversely, if they fail and start to sputter out, I'll also recognize that. Price is always truth.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: It doesn't matter if they work the whole year and made only the equivalence of $1, some of that $1 will be put into a spec and put into a container Thats really not true. You cant eat gold and a large percentage of India barely gets by. Like JM mentioned even if they are its irrelevant its so small. Quote: You realize that those poor desolate Indians account for over 30% of all the gold consumed in the world every year? And the top 5 percent probably account for 29 percent of it. One reason why its so popular in India among the wealthy is a horrible banking system. The Indian government is atively trying to address that to discourage importing gold. The cultural aspect will remain but you only have so many weddings. That rate wont increase for ever. China on the other hand is really irrelevant. Theyre pretty much self sustained, that makes a bubble for them as they arent eating up anyone elses supply. Its no secret that Asia and India have a high demand for gold. But their reasons for it havent changed in 10 years so their affect on the price is really sporadic. Marriages will die down for a bit then the next generation will be getting married in a couple decades. If anything as the rupee continues to sink people will be able to afford less and less
|
| |
Replies: 5,649 / Views: 461,144 |
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use
|
| Coin Community Forum |
© 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums |
| It took 0.81 seconds to rattle this change. |
 |
|
| |
| |