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What Happens To Gold And Silver Next? Look Out Below?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From my viewpoint as a trader, that was a very swift reversal, and its clear, no amount of QE is going to help gold out.

I think depending on what happens tomorrow, chances are high we remain in a range, and if that happens and a lower leg doesn't happen again, then at best, gold and silver are broken.

This will take time to play out, so take it day by day, level by level. Dont get ahead of yourself and guess, just follow the price action.
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Doug58s's Avatar
United States
899 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doug58s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yup - the pattern that has played out for the last year has been this... QE talk and speculation it is ending the stock market falls and gold and silver rise. When the FOMC meets and announces the continuation of QE the stock market goes back up and gold and silver drop.

It is my opinion that until QE is gone and they stop playing with the cash flow - all markets are a mess. The stock market will take a huge hit when they don't have $85 billion to play with on a monthly basis. The fact that the FED takes that segment of the market and secures it, is giving free reign to the market players to spend elsewhere. Since the stock market is rising at ridiculous rates - who wouldn't put their money in it today - it is a cash cow waiting for a collapse - and most want in until they get a chance to bail just before it busts.

Gold and Silver aren't necessarily broke - they aren't going anywhere because the stock market is being played and supported via the FED. When the FED (if they do), finally stop spending our grandchildrens future... these will go back to normal - not until then.
Edited by Doug58s
10/30/2013 3:06 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  3:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I appreciate your comments Dougie. However, the pattern that I am referring has nothing to do based on what the Fed says but rather price action.

Reversals are typical, and are common in an asset that is locked in a range. There is no real conviction for gold and silver base on this price range. This price is typical and I have seen it played out before in many other assets that were broken, whether commodity, stock, currency or bond.

This has nothing to do with QE or the stock market going higher etc. In fact, most commodities are broken, very few, in fact I can think of only one commodity that is near 52 highs, all others are either at yearly lows or just range bound.

So again, I am not stating my opinion, I am stating facts based on price action which indicate a broken asset. Furthermore, I don't get paid by my opinion but rather by what price says is happening or could happen.
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Doug58s's Avatar
United States
899 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doug58s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yup... "I am looking at price action" - cause and affect. You are pointing out exactly what I am saying - all commodities and markets are broke.

This same trend happens every time the FOMC meets to discuss QE. The market goes down - holding it's collective breath waiting - and then returns to buying. Gold and Silver go up - in speculation of a possible end to QE... and then goes back to floundering after the announcement of QE continuing.

QE is injecting that flux into the trends and holding us in this cycle.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BTW I also disagree with your with your incorrect statement that the markets are rising at ridiculous rates.

One cannot decide that on their own. By whos metrics are you saying that? IF you are not an institutional fund you cannot state that as fact. Markets are following a uptrend because institutions are buying based on future projects. It has nothing to do with QE. If that was the case then all stocks would be rising in the market. That is not the case.

Therefore, blanket statements cannot be used such as yours that "markets are rising at ridiculous rates.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry Doug but you are confused.

The SPX, NASDAQ DIJA and Russell are NOT broken, they are in uptrends currently, making yearly highs and historical all time highs. Those markets are not broken.

What you are doing is injecting your own mindset about the markets, which are based on your opinion.

Clearly you dont understand what price action is.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BTW- these markets will continue to move higher as tapering proceeds. The markets dont need QE. That is also another incorrect assumption thats made.

While I realize many have a hard time understanding that, in time you will see how the market is ready to accept no QE. It was already starting to do so earlier in the year.

Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
these are the main points for gold and silver based on price action-

1- counter trend rallies do occur in downtrends. We been seeing that all year in gold and silver as they hit yearly lows. We are seeing a counter trend move currently.

2- counter trend moves are just that. They dont mean that all is well and that the downtrend is broken. Holding those rallies and moving away from those price points however, can give us clues, if they hold, that price wants to break the downtrend.

3- QE has done zippo for gold and silver. There has to be some other catalyst for gold and silver to get going but the notion that "QE will make silver and gold rise" is old hat. What the catalyst will be, I have no idea.

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Arcticsparky's Avatar
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arcticsparky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmm It's amazing how fast humans forget. We as the only sentient beings we know, congratulate ourselves on our superiority. And we can't even remember the giant market and housing bubbles that nearly brought another great depression. Well it's blowing up again and QE has it's lips on it. I suppose everyone will be surprised when it bursts. It's depressing how dumb most people are.
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cosmoscoins's Avatar
164 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  5:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cosmoscoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Arcticsparky is right,,it will burst,,Buy Silver Hoard Copper and Zinc,,,,Cosmos
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starbuxinvestor's Avatar
United Kingdom
616 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  7:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add starbuxinvestor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SO what I am reading is every time the market is at a high it is a bubble. Interesting but no compelling.
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Doug58s's Avatar
United States
899 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doug58s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yup - I also remember you strongly disagreed with me when I said QE would not end this year - just a few months ago. Your looking at the micro view and not standing back and looking at the macro effects.

Every time QE is discussed as being removed the markets take a beating... so far taking QE out hasn't happened - so we don't know what that will cause when it does happen. I suspect based on the fact nothing currently supports stocks dramatic rise in the global markets - a rise that isn't supported by huge jobs growth and solid economic data that reflects a robust economy anywhere in the world - they will drop like a rock.
Edited by Doug58s
10/30/2013 7:03 pm
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Every time QE is discussed as being removed the markets take a beating... so far taking QE out hasn't happened - so we don't know what that will cause when it does happen.


Thats true, and its very true that we dont know what exactly would happen without doing it. On the other hand, the markets dont like change or things that rock the boat. Any discussion that leads to those things generally results in a pull back especially with people being more cautious after 08.


Quote:
I suspect based on the fact nothing currently supports stocks dramatic rise in the global markets - a rise that isn't supported by huge jobs growth and solid economic data that reflects a robust economy anywhere in the world - they will drop like a rock.


I think its safe to say thered be a pull back, maybe even a large drop the question is would it stay there or climb back up creating a good buying opportunity.

Its true the rise isn't reflected in job creation, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. Companies just flat out really arent hiring a lot or expanding compared to past rates and are sitting on more money with the uncertainty of future actions and vilification of them thats been created. As long as the profits are there stock rises arent necessarily a bubble.

On one hand you can say that they arent fully maximizing growth potential, but on the other hand you can also argue they may be undervalued since if they decide the time is right to expand you could see more growth and theyre in a better position money wise to do so.

Its also kind of a self fulfilling action in the sense that when the price rises everyone wants in on it causing the price to rise even further. The reverse is usually true too where things drop like a rock because of a big dip until some big money steps in and says alright enough this is a good buy being undervalued now.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i think when everyone uses the word "bubble" it is just parroting the talking heads in the media.

Dougie, I love you man. All I am saying is the stock markets in the US are in uptrends as of right now. As a trader, solely based on price action, not talking about my opinion, but talking price, we are in an uptrend, a powerful one because we are at historic highs. That means there is NO overhead supply.

Now, I dont want to get into a debate with you and drag this out but heres the deal. EVERY single time the markets correct, the dip is bought. PERIOD. That price action speaks to the strength of this market. So saying
"the markets take a beating" when talk about removing QE means NOTHING. Why?

Because each time the market continues to make all time highs. So thats why I am saying, QE will be removed, the Fed has already done a trial ballon and the market will absorb it.

Finally, look at gold and silver. They are doing NOTHING at all while markets rise. Those are broken assets until they prove otherwise and time will tell us when the time is to be buying the PMs.

As far as I am concerned, QE or no QE, so long as there is a trend, UP or DOWN, I will profit and benefit so I dont really care.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BTW, you cannot paint the stock market with a broad brush. Period. There are many stocks rising that dont CARE about job growth. You do not need job creation for all stocks to rise. PERIOD. This is fact and happens all the time.

It is a myth that stocks wont and dont rise because job numbers are low. Again you cannot just say that stocks will drop because theres going to be no QE.

There are plenty of stocks that rise and they have done it with no QE. period. It is a myth and incorrect to make assumptions when one has not closed examined by stocks rise.

The final point I will address on stock is this and I wont talk anymore about the stock market because this is not the thread. However, anyone who has been a naysayer about the stock market is either short, wrong or has missed out on a HUGE run in stocks for foolishly fighting the trend. Trends are a powerful thing and they all run out. Right now the US stock markets and European stock markets are on powerful uptrends and they will run longer than anyone can even project.

In fact, its GREAT to see such pessimism that abounds. Its great that people talk about "bubble this and bubble that". Thats great because those are the people you fade and ignore and with their pessimism, the markets will trump them and leave them in the dust.

So again, why put your money into broken assets like gold and silver when you can be getting a return and enjoying a uptrend such as is evident in world stock markets.
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