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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1244 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
515 Posts |
There's a 50c rotation when the blank doesn't engage in the collar (ramstrike) at first and is struck forcing the blank into the collar making "lugs" which , I think a pic you are looking for is here: http://www.australian-threepence.co...n-error.html. Then there's rotataion if the planchet doesn't engage in the collar at all and is struck entirely without collar (I've spilled the beans -see upcoming article of out of collar 50c in February CAB mag). Neither of these are upset. An upset is where one die rotates -the orientation is different for the reverse and obverse dies which shouldn't happen as the dies are keyed into the press. (A luck would have it the key doesn't show in the image but is a flat area at the side of the base of the die)   
Edited by the-purple-penny 12/08/2011 05:19 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
877 Posts |
Thanks purple penny. I don't know if that is the photo I recall but it shows the error very well.
I had a look at your site; knew there had to be one lurking in there somewhere by could not find it.
Jeff
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1244 Posts |
So, in normal people language... If you get a castle type coin it's because it the blank wasn't lined up properly for the stamping mechanism.
And an upset is when the stamp was put in the machine by someone, and it was not lined up -- making a rotated obverse or reverse. So this would be a quality control thing, I thought they were supposed to make sure the pics lined up and do a test stamp!
Super cool pics. It so explains how people make clock faces up the key has 12 sides :) does the $1 die have the same key too
Ooooo can we see pics of the coin with no collar
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Valued Member
Australia
490 Posts |
hmmm, reading the-purple-penny's post (WOW by the way on the pictures - you have some sweet access!)... Quote: the-purple-penny: An upset is where one die rotates -the orientation is different for the reverse and obverse dies which shouldn't happen as the dies are keyed into the press. So, I understand that a ramstrike (crowning, castleing etc) is possible (well, I know it is as I have several examples in my collection ;-), but that a misaligned die should not be possible because of the "flat" side of the die which should only go into the press in a way to align with its partner die. So I am struggling to come up with how this is possible: http://forums.silverstackers.com/to...or-type.html (thanks again to Australian Coin for this link) I would also assume that the keying or "flat side" on the die is not unique to the 50c and we are all well aware of the $1 rotations... More information leading to more questions in this simple country boy's mind...
Edited by steve - Oz 50c man 12/09/2011 09:27 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
515 Posts |
The coin in that link is a 30 degree upset, it's upset 1/2th of the dodecagonal planchet (12 sided). There are a number of reasons why this has happened but without more knowledge of a working press (or the RAM working presses) it's hard to say how this occured. Possibilities: 1.The die could have been incorrectly placed into the press and for some reason the key didn't engage or was faulty. 2. The working die could have been hubbed at the wrong angle when it was made form the master die. Then the key would have been in place but the design angle wrong. 3. The master die was at the incorrect angle when it hubbed the working die. Mistakes happen to everyone. This is what collectors like!
I'll try get a piccie of the key soon.
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Valued Member
Australia
490 Posts |
thanks purple penny - as always your logic and depth of thought are spot on and us mere mortals welcome and thank you for sharing!
i am still yet to posses one of these babies - I should say knowingly posses as I must confess that this is one error I was not aware of and have not really even checked specifically for, so I may actually have one or more in the hoard... hmmmmmm, more noodling! luv it!
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
515 Posts |
Here we go, you can see the key (in the top pic) on the left bottom end of the die.  
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
515 Posts |
My mechanically minded other half told me I should have referred to the key as the keyway as it is female.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1244 Posts |
Had a blonde moment (I thought the 12 sided bit was they key) its the 50c stamp part der..... I just found this pic while searching for coin dies. I'm guessing your pic shows a die that has no picture on it, has it been angle-grinded off or something. 
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1244 Posts |
 this site is fantasic for die pics http://www.digitalstudio.co.nz/gall...003.jpg.htmlHere are some NZ dies and blanks -- fantastic photography by someone. Also found us dies -- and they have numbers at the bottom of them, they can also have engravers signatures.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1005 Posts |
If thee die is keyed, how can upset errors happen? That would mean there needs to be an error in the die wouldnt it?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1244 Posts |
Went through all my 2010 COA and dint find anything. May be harder to find than first thought 
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote: If thee die is keyed, how can upset errors happen? That would mean there needs to be an error in the die wouldnt it? Ever used a set-screw with a hex driver? It will turn freely until locked into position on the flat point of the key. Someone forgot to tighten the key, or it got loose in operation.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1005 Posts |
Sorry biggfredd, I missed your reply. I was thinking more like the key in a harmonic balancer - where the 2 parts will only go together one way because the key is fixed in the crank. Clearly, that is not how it is done! I was looking for more info on these, and found this post again after finding an upset 2010 50c coin. I have posted (including a picture) here https://goccf.com/t/111357
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