Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Specializing in Modern Numismatics Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer 300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsRoyal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

New Theodosius

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 25 / Views: 2,780Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2011  01:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list
Actually the dealer claimed that it is RIC 26b.2. So is this more common than the kind you believe it to be?
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2011  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
Unless I'm reading the mint mark wrong which is possible with my eye sight. I don't believe it's 26b. I wasn't able to find 26b.2 so I don't know what the difference is if any, but RIC IX 26b is SMKA, SMKA delta, and SMKA gamma minted at Cyzicus and listed as common.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2011  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list

Quote:
I don't believe it's 26b. I wasn't able to find 26b.2


Your right echizento, I think the seller got it wrong. '26b.2' also looks like a mis-reading of RIC including the '2' from the legend table. Archraz's coin looks to be from Nicomedia, most likely 'SMNA' which is listed in RIC IX as 45b or 48a. Its impossible to separate these two numbers.

Its possible its something else but that would require a left field mark to have completely disappeared. RIC lists 45 as 'S' and 48 as 'R2'.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  02:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list
bobbyhelmet & echizento- Wow, VERY interesting. Because (and I hope that I am not breaking any forum rules by saying so) I bought this from Dirty Old Coins with a certificate of authenticity and a write up with all of the details. I have heard that the owner of this company is known for having a very good eye at IDing coins, so I'm surprised.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  12:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
He is very good, but he may have had an off day or it was attributed by one of his staff. You might want to contact him and say that you believe the coin has been mis-attributed. See what he has to say about it.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list
Everyone makes mistake, even the best. TBH I'm often amazed traders attribute coins worth less than $50 to a RIC number anyway. It can take an hour to ID a coin, find a RIC No and then confirm it by checking all of the details. Time is money to traders!
Edited by bobbyhelmet
12/14/2011 12:38 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list
Well, I have shot an email to Rasiel, the owner, in order to see what he thinks about the matter. I hope that he responds.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2011  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list
Everyone, so I asked Rasiel, and he replied. Here is his response:
"The difference between the two rests on the third letter of the exergue. If N it is 45b for the mint of Nicomedia, if H then it is Heraclea. Although not perfectly clear, in this case you can see from the image that the middle bar in the letter does not slant but is laid horizontally. In addition, the last letter seems to be a B, an officina seemingly not active at this mint for this issue."

So do you guys agree?
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2011  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
It does look like it might be an H rather than N, you can probably tell better with the coin in hand. If it is an H than it is RIC IX 26b.2 Heraclea. Helvetica & Wildwinds doesn't list this coin, but I was able to find a reference in ERIC II (his book) but no rarity indicated. So no way to tell value at this point.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1549 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2011  9:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list
I hope everyone understands that every mint in RIC starts over with #1 so low numbers like 26 are quite likely to occur for each mint. In this case RIC 26 page 198 is a coin of Heraclea while RIC 26 page 246 is the same basic type from Cyzicus. Nicomedia had more coins in this period so this particular type doesn't come up until #45 which is listed on page 262. RIC is a scholarly work, not a catalog for coin collectors. They list 48 (page 263) as part of the next issue (seventh period) but note that the coins can not be distinguished from #45. The difference is that in the seventh period he was accompanied in rule by both his sons following the death of Valentinian II. In period six there were no coins of Honorius but there were for Arcadius. How do you tell which coins were made this week and which last week? You don't.

It was a mere accident that #26 was the same coin for Heraclea and Cyzicus but this would cause no problem if everyone would quote the page number and/or the mint name when using RIC numbers starting with Volume VI when the RIC authors decided to start renumbering with each mint city. I wish they didn't do that but they did. I read the OP coin as H for Heraclea so the quote to RIC 26b is correct. 2 is the obverse legend reading THEODO-SIUS while 26a is a coin of Valentinian and 26c is Arcadius. It is redundant to say 26a1, 26b2 or 26c3. In this case RIC even numbers the workshops so you could say the OP coin is actually 26b2,2 but this already passed ridiculous so lets not.

Of the three mints discussed here, only Heraclea had no symbol in the left field. If you insist Raisel is wrong saying the letter is an H rather than an N then you have to explain (corroded away) the lack of one of three choices for this symbol. The Cyzicus mint examples all have the cross-rho symbol as shown on my photo below of an RIC 26b2 page 246 Cyzicus.


New-Theodosius

The problem here is that the last letter of my coin has to be alpha, beta, gamma or delta. I suppose it is a damaged beta but some might read it as an S which is not a possible choice from this four shop mint. These little coins often have a few letters that are hard to read so I'm not even close to claiming a new discovery here. It is just a defective letter on an imperfect coin. ...or does someone see where I have misidentified the coin? This is not something I really collect.

Regarding bobbyhelmet's question why a dealer would bother with an RIC number for a cheap coin: This 'look up' would take a skilled and experienced dealer a minute, not 30. If spending a minute allows you to sell a $10 coin for $30, I'd say it was worth the effort. In this case I'd say the 'very reputable dealer' factor was at least half of the value of the transaction. Raisel is both knowledgeable and reputable not to mention having furthered the hobby with his books. Perhaps we should not be too rough in allowing him a return on his investment in all of our educations.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2011  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list
Well - I'll bow to Raisels experience on this. I don't think I would bet the farm on the last letters of the mintmark being 'HB' over 'NA' though. Maybe I would bet more than half the farm though! Must admit I missed the 'Heraclea mint' part on Archrazs first post so went off in the wrong direction when I found the number under Cyzicus.


Quote:
I was able to find a reference in ERIC II (his book) but no rarity indicated. So no way to tell value at this point


RIC lists it as 'R'.


Quote:
Of the three mints discussed here, only Heraclea had no symbol in the left field. If you insist Raisel is wrong saying the letter is an H rather than an N then you have to explain (corroded away) the lack of one of three choices for this symbol.


I think if you double check there is one coin for each number (Nicomedia 45b(p262)/48b(p263)) that does not bear a left field mark?
Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2011  01:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list
Thanks for the input, everyone. So, ultimately, my question is what do you guys think that it is worth? I'm just really curious since Raisel also appraised it for $50, which is kind of interesting given the fact that he sold the coin for $30. So what do you guys think is realistic for this coin?
Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2011  07:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list
I like your coin. I have been sitting by and reading the posts with great interest, but not having a lot to add to the conversation. If you paid $30 you got a very fair price for this coin. The obverse is in very good condition while the reverse is in OK condition and better than most. This particular coin sells for north of $50 by most dealers. Take a look at this link: http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=241337. This coin is selling for $75 and is in similar condition both obverse and reverse. IMHO you did well.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2011  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list
jwharper- Thanks for the input! I'm glad to hear that this coin is not incredibly common and has a bit of value.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2011  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
I have to check my lot of these to see if the CHI-RHO is present or not. Never noticed the difference. Learn something new every day. Glad that your coin turned out to be a rarer example and that you got it for a good price.
Page 2 of 2   Previous TopicReplies: 25 / Views: 2,780Next Topic Page 2 of 2
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.34 seconds to rattle this change. Forums