1802 Draped Bust Dollar... Could This Be Fake Counterfeit

Its a counterfeit using a transfer die process in my opinion. XRF analysis of these high end types from my studies over the last year revealed three major alloys being used: Fe/Ni, German Silver (Cu/Zn/Ni) and Brass with trace silver (i.e., normally 1-5%). They may use actual coins or other counterfeits in the die transfer casting process. One tell tale sign is a magnet but the Fe needs to be >40% for its to be magnetic if its a Fe/Ni alloy. Normally under high magnification you will top of the letters appearing to be irregualr or ROUGH as if pulled off a casting die. Sometimes there is a break in the rim for the same reason as the coin breaks away from the mold. This type of casting is so advanced it appears as if the coin is struck. See here:

http://www.jinghuashei.com/

These guys are the best Chinese counterfeiters I can find. There coins never tone to silver alloys (i.e., blue or black)and check the rims. If a coin is 100-200 years old the rims will not be smooth. More often than not they will not work the rims to make them appear old and the rim edges are sharp.

If you contact me I can do a surface XRF analysis on this coin. If it's 90-92% silver and everything else checks out perhaps a trip to PCGS/NGC is warranted of just take a chance. Slim possibility in my opinion. Look at STATES see that irregular surface I was talking about on the SURFACE of the letter motifs ...

John Lorenzo
United States

These links are being deliberately "broken" so they won't see traffic coming from this site.

even this one looks different than the one that started this post...

http://www.jinghuashei.com/uploadimage/product/1091021194256735.jpg

These links are being deliberately "broken" so they won't see traffic coming from this site.

I just re-read the OP title "fake counterfeit"...does that mean it's real...a fake counterfeit?

Kinda like a real counterfeit would be just that?

Whew, I am tired and need a nap.

Or copies of Henning nickels... Or a reproduction 1900 Micro-O Morgan or...

...Ok I'll shut up before someone swats me. :-)

However, both iron and nickel are highly magnetic so the percentage of iron won't matter. FYI US nickels aren't magnetic at 25% nickel, but older Canadian nickels are (~pure nickel). The patina on the OP's coin doesn't look quite like silver--does it?

Is the density of this alloy anywhere close to 90% silver? If not, wouldn't a weight check be a dead giveaway, assuming that they didn't compensate by making the planchet thicker or thinner?

Funny,
I have the EXACT same counterfeit. Even has the exact same scratches on the reverse, bad date, and bad "B" in liberty. Bought it online ( ebay) about 7 months ago for $250.00 when I first got into silver dollars. Wanted to send it back but didn't trust the crook seller for refund, so I decided to keep it as a conversation piece and learning tool!!

I have weighed it and measured it, it is EXACT to original. I had the metal composition checked also. It is 91.55% Silver, 7.34% Copper with zinc lead and nickle making up the rest.
The counterfeiter is pretty sophisticated!!

The seller was a new ebayer, then after he ripped me off he opened another account with another counterfeit. ebay removed that account also.

Took the coin to three coin shops, they all agreed something wasn't right. Like I said, I had the metal composition tested noninvasively and it is infact mostly silver. The only way to have the correct weight, thickness and diameter is to use silver. Even edged lettered. The coin pictured at the beginning of this thread is an EXACT replica of the one I have. EXACT markings and dark markings on surface