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 Replies: 19 / Views: 2,212 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1411 Posts |
I read it as the Top one is barbarous and the bottom is Official
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Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
2100 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4973 Posts |
nice maridvnvm!  with WC...i like the imitation better. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2100 Posts |
The engraving may be well done but it would not pass as the product of any official mint. The portrait is quite pleasing but look at the ear, which is too low on the side of the head. The legends are generally OK but too wrong even for these eastern mints.
Martin
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts |
Interesting that is one of the best Barbies I have seen. The legend on the first coin clearly reads gobbily goop. Neat coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
As a long-time collector of ancient imitations I agree this is a really special piece. Congratulations Martin! For some other imitations, see: http://esty.ancients.info/imit/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1549 Posts |
I am astounded that anyone would prefer that low ear die to the Emesa but will admit that the official one (a die I have as well) is not among the best from the mint. What would you say about this coin. 2.6g and a bit thin but denarius size This is my only certain unofficial COS II coin. I have a few that fall in the gray area that I can not convince myself if they were just a bad day at the official mint or unofficial. Unofficial Septimius copying Rome are easy to find but I have no explanation why there are so few Eastern copies.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2044 Posts |
I thought that second one was a barb too from the different engraving style. Unless that's a normal engraving style for those COS II coins?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2100 Posts |
Whilst the official COS II above isn't the best output of the mint it is well within the normal bounds of engraving and I have thought of as quite typical of the style of output for this issue. I too find it odd that people prefer the style of the barb but this is probably because I am so used to the official style. Oddly enough I only have one other barb from this issue and it is a die match to Doug's coin. Mine has lost all the plating and is simply the copper core. I only have an old scan of this one I am afraid. I need to dig it out to take a decent photo.  I have a couple of coins that I had labelled as barbs at one point but it transpires that they are official and "just a bad day at the office" coins. I am also on the look-out for babrs of the eastern IMP issues. This is the only one I have have found that likely fits the bill.  Warren's pages are a goldmine of information and examples I have never seen before. Wow. I only have a few barbs and tend to go for silver rather than fourees or cores though there are always exceptions to this rule. Martin |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1549 Posts |
While I love Warren's pages, he does not show an Eastern SS imitation. I do not consider Martin's last shown coin to be an imitation of Laodicea or the IMP mint but put it in the category I term 'original imitations' which are common for Septimius. These coins show some detail or legend not found on the originals. I have a page showing some fourrees and some solids of various categories: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/do...th/wild.htmlbut highlight one to make the point.  The reverse legend reads FELICIT AVGVST followed by a triple inverted V (or whatever). The reverse type should read TEMPORVM rather than AVGVST and is an Eastern type. The obverse is SEVERVS AVG PART MAXI from a lare Rome period but I have to ask if the extra I at the end shows the cutter knew the word being abbreviated was MAXImus or if he was copying a coin that ended in IMP XI? The coin is not so much a copy of an original but an original cobbled together from bits and pieces that came to mind. Severan imitations are a wild group worthy of study by someone but I am not sure how any sense will be made of any unofficial group without some lucky finds of large groups that can be tied to a location. Most I have seen have the look of field find individuals roughly cleaned rather than parts of large groups protected by pots. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2100 Posts |
How would we classify this one of Domna? It has the earlier IVLIA DOMNA AVG legend but the stytle doenn't match any official product. Coins with Liberalitas standing are produced at Emesa but I have never seen one seated for Domna through they do exists at Emesa for Septimius (my notes mention Domna RIC 627a but am away from my references so cannot check). Does this derive it's inspiration from Emesa? I don't know the answers but think it more likely than not but the style is distinctly not that of Emesa.  Martin |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2100 Posts |
An then there is this one..... The style is not quite that of early Laodicea coins but isn't far off. Obv:â€" L SEPT SEV PERT AVG IMP, laureate head right Rev:â€" AEQVIT AVG TR P COS II, Aequitas standing left, holding scales and cornucopia I will freely admit that I bought this coin hoping that it would be a scarce Laodicea type combined with a hybrid reverse of Pertinax. Having discussed the coin with Curtis Clay he is of the opinion that :- "I think I would consider the coin to be an ancient imitation. The style is not right for the IMP II series. That exact rev. type of Pertinax is known on authentic Alexandrian denarii of SS, but there with the obv. legend is that of 193 (probably the coin BMC and RIC refer to as hybrid), and again the coin is in different style." Perhaps one day I will be able to find out some more about it.  Martin |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1549 Posts |
I do consider both the Domna and the Aequitas unofficial. This is the official Alexandria with the same reverse lifted from Pertinax. It was one of my two Alexandria coins I owned when I first met the late Roger Bickford-Smith. He very much wanted to buy it and offered more than I would pay today. I look back on the decision not to sell this coin as the start of our correspondance where I learned most of what I know about Eastern denarii. I just happened to get a very rare one first.  Exactly where we draw the line between an official mint and a very active barbarous one is a problem in my mind. There are hundreds of Alexandria mint denarii (maybe a thousand?) and the mint has been recognized for about 80 years. As more specimens of the strange Severus coins from the early period come to light someone will have to address whether there were other mints sanctioned by Septimius, mobile mints travelling with the army or just a super prolific time of unofficial activity. Considering that the recognized Alexandria and COS II mints both copied types including legends from earlier or inappropriate sources, the usual clues of unofficial are not as helpful as we might like. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2100 Posts |
I too believe them both unofficial but I believe that they are copying or are inspired by eastern mint examples.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1316 Posts |
Martin, you make this an art, very interesting coin's, I'm keeping my eye's pealed..  |
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Replies: 19 / Views: 2,212 |
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First Page
Posted 11/25/2012 4:03 pm
