Regarding Howardsdirect And CCgs

Well said, Okie! I only hope Rob is listening.

Fred

Yep, seems like a silly attempt to whitewash a dirty past...Oh gosh, the suckers are getting wise to us, we better try to make nice.

I personally hope the self-slabbers end up as numismatic roadkill; unfortunately for the rest of us, they will have alienated too many potential collectors and made themselves too much money for any revenge to be very sweet.

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According to member listing, Rob has not been back on CC since the first day he posted. I would take that to mean that his original post wasn't very sincere. I guess it was actually an attempt to get some free advertising for his new auction service.

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Darn, I wanted to ask him what Silvertowne thinks about them using the name Silvertowne Auctions.
To the best of my knowledge there is no connection between Silvertowne and the firms Howards Direct or Silvertowne Auctions.

Hello again.

Just read through the thread again today. To be honest, I didn't see the replies because there was some confusion after I made the OP. Some links were removed, then the thread was moved, and I lost track of it. I just rediscovered it today. We are a very small firm, and you folks have to understand that my job entails a huge variety of tasks (mainly developing a website), and my non-replies to this thread are more of an indication of me being sidetracked than my sincerity. I did not get the emails sent through ebay. Those emails are not handled by me. I subscribed to the thread, and checked the email daily for quite awhile to track replies, but that probably didn't work because of the thread being moved.

So let me say, categorically, that I *do care*. I did not just write the original post to try to "make nice." I wrote it because I randomly found this site, which I had no idea existed, that had some very negative things to say about a business that has been operating succesfully, full time, for 37 years, a business that otherwise has a sterling reputation. Let me be clear: My purpose here is not "whitewashing," it is to correct something that is incorrect: that we are trying to rip people off and we are some "problem" in the industry. I know some of you would disagree with that, and, you know, that's totally fine. But that's where I am coming from.

Thanks, by the way, to those who had some very nice things to say. As for the constructive criticism aspect, we do recognize the issues you raise. At last check a few minutes ago, we have about 6 items for sale on ebay, obviously far less than we ever had. I don't expect us to increase that any time soon, if ever at all, except maybe a few things here and there. A few years ago, we literally had thousands of items running. And good call on the pictures. We have always struggled with that here, mainly due to the business being mostly old grizzled coin veterans that, yes, are very poor with technology in general.

As to the auction business: If you go to silvertowne.com and look at the main page, you'll see a link that goes directly to our auction site. We have been doing business with Silvertowne for as long as we've been in business. We are good personal friends with virtually everbody there. I would suggest that you call, ask for anybody really, but particularly Leon Hendrickson, Dave Hendrickson, Tony Abel, Tyler Abel, and so on. Call them up and ask about Howard's, and you will get a good indication as to our reputation. In any case, that is for the most part a local Ohio/Indiana/Michigan endeavor.

Finally, I should say that my purpose here is not to try to change anyone's mind about CCGS. Really, it is just a marketing gimmick, but obviously I understand why some people would feel a sense of outrage. I'm not allowed to put links in here, but if anyone finds this website I'm working on (it is live), I'd be happy to extend a discount to folks coming from here.

My goal with that is to say, ok, you don't like us for X reason. So let me offer you reasons to, at the very least, consider changing your opinion of us from "crooks!" to "Alright, they did something that I disagree with, but they are moving on to something else, maybe they deserve a shot."

-Rob

I can answer that question, actually. We made 10-15% on coins, which is a low, but very standard, margin in the coin business. Again, if you think we were just drilling people for huge margins over what we paid you would be mistaken. Shoot, we often broke even or sometimes lost a little money from time to time.

If anyone here is interested, I'd be happy to list a bunch of coin dealers whom you could call to check our reputation. Our reputation here, on this message board, isn't great, which is why I'm taking the time to post here. But our reputation in the industry is a much different story, that I'm quite confident of.

-Rob

Susanlynn9,

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the situation. We sold those coins at a fair price to everyone. The only reason we did CCGS is because customers did not buy raw on ebay. They had to feel that it was in something. The fact is, the response was positive. We did not have many returns. Of course, those who wanted to return their coins, we honered that each and every time.

Truth is, other people caught on to this and starting abusing it. That's what we noticed, and why we are just blowing out old inventory at this point. It didn't have any bearing to how we were running our business, but it was, as another poster said, painting us with a broad brush.

I think some of you can stand to use some perspective. PCGS is owned by David Hall. David Hall is a well known coin dealer. So therefore, PCGS is, by your definition, a self slabber.

Personally, I have no problem with PCGS: Hall jumped in, marketed a good product, and we all pay premiums for PCGS coins, even if we patently disagree with the grade. But it has created an environment in which people have a certain expectation, especially on ebay for whatever reason.

Again, my main purpose here is to let people know that Howard's is a 37 year old business with a sterling reputation, to counterbalance what I have seen here. If you still wish to think I am just here making excuses and we are "bad," so be it. Obviously at this juncture it is clear people are fairly convinced either way, so I will leave it at that.

I do thank you for giving me this forum in which to tell our side of the story. If any of you go to the major coin shows, I would ask that you talk with Rick and Larry. I think you would most definitely convinced, beyond what I can do here, of what kind of business Howard's is.

Best Regards,
-Rob

Rob, I have hesitated to record this set of circumstances as I felt that I had made my point. But you have come back here and responded as if this is no big deal and you have placed yourself on a par with PCGS. Well, here is some food for thought:

We sell coins on consignment. We had a gentleman approach us about selling his Morgan collection. All were in slabs, but none were in reputable slabs. Three of his coins were in CCGS MS67 slabs. I had the fun job of explaining to him why these coins were not going to finance his retirement because one of them was actually an AU coin (I showed him all of the areas of wear - not weak strike); the other two were MS63-64. This gentleman and his wife were devestated. He said that he would never be able to recover the money he had put into those coins. He also had a lot of other basement slabbed coins. In all, he lost well over $10,000.

The fact is that I have seen first-hand an example of your "certification" marketing gimmick and the havoc it wreaked on a man and his wife. This is why I am taking such a hard line with this.

I strongly believe that the reason you have not had many returns is that most of the people who are buying your slabbed coins are uneducated and will not find out the mistake they made until they come to someone like me to sell for them or buy their coins. By then, it's too late, isn't it?