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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
Interesting. While I have no problem with self attribution, I do have a problem with unverifiable cert #'s... http://www.pcgs.com/cert/ |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
579 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
He's a major player in the world of VAMs, with a sterling and widespread reputation. Would you rather he covered the serial?
For the record, IMO the coin is easily worth his starting bid and quite possibly worth his BIN. There are only three known in higher grade, and only one Mint State example. This is a major rarity, even for the Thornheads which are all (with the exception of 1B6) scarcer than hen's teeth.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
@kenga it's not covering anything like genuine. PCGS doesn't give numerical grades for details coins. ANACS is the only one currently doing that I believe.
As for the original question, I'm not opposed to sellers doing that if they're right. Sometimes you forget to have it done or in this case from Dave's comments sounds like he'd rather do it himself and save the money.
Basically if you do it yourself it better be right, if it's not you should honor refunds for the mistake. The one thing I don't like about that method is the potential for people to just put whatever to make the coins more valuable for unknowing buyers, but people like will always find a way to try and defraud buyers.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
The seller is doing it the right way, self-attributing and then posting large clear photos of the VAM PUPs so a buyer can visually verify. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 917 Posts |
Sorry SsuperDdave I didn't know he was such a superstar in the VAM world. I have only been getting into them for the past month or so, so my knowledge is slim and that's and understatement. For some reason I just figured it would have come back on the coin information on PCGS. I understand PCGS doesn't know everything, combine that with my lack of knowledge on the subject and you will see why it looked funny to me. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
There's no doubt that the listings will appear odd to the non-VAMmer, so your reaction is quite understandable. Only ANACS attributes all VAMs, and you have to ask all 3 major TPG's to do them at all, or they won't. So, labeling a slab for the relevant VAM by hand is fairly common in the specialty. |
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Moderator
United States
15522 Posts |
Appeared odd to me as well until I read all the comments ... My view is that a newcomer to the VAM world would not know of the 'sterling reputation' of the seller and should reasonably question the attribution/motivation. Pleased to learn in this case that the seller is an acknowledged expert and his/her attributions can be trusted ... That's all good and well ... what happens next when the folks from China show up attributing their own fake slab VAM? David |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:That's all good and well ... what happens next when the folks from China show up attributing their own fake slab VAM? The VAMmer subset will create a smoking crater where they once stood. We know who each other are. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
Quote:what happens next when the folks from China show up attributing their own fake slab VAM? Without going into detail, so far chinese counterfeiters have been sloppy idiots. Any and all VAMmers can spot a fake Morgan a mile away (given decent photos). I would actually recommend anyone who collects Morgan and Peace dollars to familiarize yourselves to VAMworld. It could spare you the agony of wasting some large on chinese crap. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
VAMmers are as fanatical as any subset of coin collectors, including EAC types and Bust Half Nuts. We're just too busy studying Morgans to spout off much.  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
Quote:
We're just too busy studying Morgans to spout off much Yeah, I guess I just did.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: Only ANACS attributes all VAMs, and you have to ask all 3 major TPG's to do them at all, or they won't. So, labeling a slab for the relevant VAM by hand is fairly common in the specialty. Is that VAMing service still going that was posted a while back where they sticker the VAM? If that started to take off Id be interested to see if PCGS/NGC open up what theyll do if they feel theyre starting to lose attribution to a 3rd party. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:Is that VAMing service still going that was posted a while back where they sticker the VAM? Yes; that's VARSlab and John Baumgartner isn't going anywhere. The reason NGC and PCGS don't attribute them all is that the overwhelming percentage of Morgan/Peace VAMs are extremely subtle, essentially valueless, and sufficient reference material simply isn't available. I can't blame them. The reason ANACS does is John Roberts. Aside their own encyclopedic knowledge, both Johns have ready access to the combined might of the top tier of individual VAMmers, since they're peers. |
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Posted 12/16/2013 09:40 am
