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Replies: 40 / Views: 10,257 |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
We nitpick here, austrokiwi. That's what we do. 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4038 Posts |
The highest overall transmission you can get with a single glass sheet is 25%, using 50% glass. Less reflection means less light to the coin, so extraneous sources are more intrusive. The extraneous sources also transmit more from coin to sensor, a double-whammy!. Less reflection also means more light passing to the back of the setup that has to be dealt with. All that said, regular glass can work fine as long as it's fairly high quality. A huge caveat here...all the times I've set up axial lighting, I've tried for the "most axial" I could achieve, and have every time been disappointed. "Pure" axial lighting creates very high contrast and extreme shadowing on any surfaces that are not reflecting back to the sensor. Here is a Cent photo I took with an axial setup, compared with a 2-source 75-deg setup:   Notice the 75-deg setup doesn't present much luster, but the axial setup produces virtually none. This is because the "luster" we're used to seeing is a contrast between direct reflection and absorption off the local metal surfaces, and needs to be localized to normal to us. Luster is actually present in these images, but is spread fairly evenly over the 75-deg setup, and perfectly evenly over the axial setup, so it doesn't look like luster. Also notice that the axial setup "hides" a lot of surface finish detail. It takes side-lighting to create the shadows that delineate surface details, and axial by definition does not provide this. Most folks who are successful with axial lighting are actually not doing axial lighting! They have axial setups, but use large or multiple lights to create a variable lighting system that includes axial content to bring out the color presentation only axial can produce as a part of the overall image.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com
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Valued Member
 440 Posts |
"Most folks who are successful with axial lighting are actually not doing axial lighting! They have axial setups, but use large or multiple lights to create a variable lighting system that includes axial content to bring out the color presentation only axial can produce as a part of the overall image."
Interesting because being relatively new at this I was contemplating this very idea. After realizing my axial attempt was not really a true axial procedure I at first tried to contemplate ways to render a truer axial image(which I will most likely still do). Then after re-visualizing this particular coin per Dave's suggestion I still feel the photo I accidentally got during this attempt is to date the best rendition I have been able to get. It truly resembles the coins actual color. I have been rethinking my procedure and was wondering how a combination of axial & additional lighting (which would have to be tweaked) would work on some of my other coins with DMPL, PL & cameo proff surfaces. Lots of experimenting seems to be in the future.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4038 Posts |
You, sir, are hooked! Welcome to the club...Ray
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com
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Valued Member
 440 Posts |
Ray you and Dave did this to me :) Can't say that I'm not having fun though. Bob
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Valued Member
Canada
478 Posts |
Edited by rmc 03/27/2014 8:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4038 Posts |
As with CP's example, this looks to be partially non-axial. Did you shade the coin from any direct light coming from the source? How about any light coming from other sources? I see illumination on the sides of some features, so this is a clear indication of non-axial. The sides of all the features should be in shadow.
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Valued Member
Canada
478 Posts |
 You got me. Yes there was other lighting involved...the room lighting was on  Here I was so proud of myself
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4038 Posts |
Again comparing with CP's example, the pic is very nice. Just because it's not pure axial doesn't mean it isn't good. In fact I bet when you get pure axial you won't like it as much.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
For the Cent, the lighting DOES look biased from the right. I guess that the additional ambient room lighting is responsible. Whatever the case, the result is a good one.
For the Morgan, there seems to be a slight bias in the lighting from above. I guess additional ambient room lighting again. Another very good result that brings out the rainbow toning. The colour temperature is right.
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Valued Member
 440 Posts |
rmc the more I delve into this the more I realize that experimenting with lighting is a key issue. And a "variation" of axial lighting may actually in some cases produce the "look" we are trying to achieve. Are you happy with your pics and do they provide a true rendition of the coin? Ambient lighting can be eliminated. I'm still working on a platform for this process but want to attempt it with quality glass.
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Valued Member
Canada
478 Posts |
I have my set up in my office in the basement, its not a bright room and has no window. I did try a comparison shot with the room light off and it did not seem to make a difference in the picture so I just left them on. I used a desk lamp for the main light shinning horizontally toward the glass and finally I used one jansjo light from above that is heavily diffused. I understand now that this isn't true axial lighting but I love the out come. I have struggled to find the right lighting for pennies and until now I have pretty much failed. I've taken several photos now using this method not just of pennies but nickels, quarters etc and have found it to be my favorite. Especially for pennies, this seems to have provided me with the best rendition and trueness...with a little twikking, I think this will be my go to lighting method for most of my pictures. PLUS I have found you can go from one coin to another with little or no lighting adjustment and other than cropping, little to no editing, the coins I posted have no editing. Again, not true axial lighting but thanks to you guys and this thread, I stumbled onto a great lighting method. 
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
I'm kinda impressed by what you're achieving, rmc. Your stuff really pops out at the viewer.
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Valued Member
Canada
478 Posts |
Thanks SD...that means a lot coming from you  I love how it can really show the "grain" of a coin  Sorry...don't mean to hi jack the thread...just thought Id share 
Edited by rmc 03/28/2014 11:54 am
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
A couple of photographs using my axial lighting rig. Ambient light was as near to nil as possible{ taken in a darkened room with the only light source the LED light for the axial lighting. As a reminder I use a 50-50 Edmonds beam splitting plate ( very old uses titanium dioxide for the coating) This first medal is a monster 5 oz's of silver with mirror surfaces. With any other type of lighting I usually get nasty glare. Lens was what was on the camera at the time Minolta 35mm-70 macro.  For the next coin I went to a dedicated macro lens; Sigma 105mm ex macro. Now this coin wouldn't fill the sensor so I cheated a little and activated the Cameras optical zoom. Effectively I just did some pre-editing with the camera.  Both photos meet my needs there is no glare or distracting reflection. For me thats what I like about Axial lighting
Edited by austrokiwi 03/28/2014 4:43 pm
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