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Pillar of the Community
United States
9794 Posts |
When I started collecting coins back in Denver - we had a mint employee that actually worked the line on the Peace dollars come and give a talk, it was quite interesting. He said all of them could purchase one or two at face value, but at the last minute the mint demanded them to be brought back and they ended up melting them, there were no records of the actual count of how many sold, the mint went on weight of melted coins only, so it is quite conceivable that there are a few of them out in the world. He never purchased one. They won't come out in public or they will be seized. I've heard rumors of one being sold in Europe, told to me by somebody that may possibly know, that same person also said there were at least a half dozen in the lot he knew about, (he was a big time dealer, now passed away) and had no reason to lie or make up the story. He handled a lot of the big rarities over the years he was a coin dealer and put on coin auctions, so I doubt he was fibbing about this one. He also said he knew of multiple 1933 Double Eagles, way before any of them actually came to surface, which they ended up doing many years after his death, making that story now completely true, I have no doubt that there are at least 2 1964-D Peace dollars out there based on his comments to me. Take it for what it's worth. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2215 Posts |
I wonder if there's a silent agreement amongst dealers when it comes to illegal coins. Perhaps the coins are traded amongst the dealers under the radar; and the people who own them have private "viewing parties" for them and their friends to look at the coins, and those who come are sworn to secrecy. It's like their own private little club, and no one spills the beans because they don't have any good reason to; plus, it would spoil the fun of knowing something others don't-as well as spoiling the fun of these get-togethers. Sounds plausible to me.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2215 Posts |
This is the most fascinating entry in that wiki article:  Give me a 1970 Peace dollar over a 64 any day! ("All were presumed destroyed"? Don't you love that line?) |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
So LBJ issues an order to make more dollars to prevent a coin shortage. Shortly thereafter, though, Congress convinces him to stop the minting, so it ceases. Other way round,the Senate caused the coins to be made and LBJ stopped them. And it was politics as usual. The drawdown of the silver dollars from the Treasury meant that they would soon be out so some Senators from the silver producing states requested that new silver dollars be struck to replenish the supply. It was basically a silver subsidy. they tied their votes on the question of the clad composition to the production of the dollars. You make the dollars and help the people in my state or I'll hold up the coinage bill. Originally the dollars were going to be Morgan dollars not Peace, but all of the Morgan dies and hubs had been destroyed while there were still some Peace dollar reverses on hand. So they changed it to the Peace dollar. (As it turned out none of the Peace dollar dies were usable so the had to start over from scratch anyway.) It was the hoarding that finally got LBJ to kill the coin. Before they were even produced dealers were already offering to buy them at $7.50 each. None would have entered circulation and it just didn't make any sense to throw that silver away when they were already in danger of having a shortage,and in the middle of a bad coin shortage. The silver for the 45 million silver dollar would produce a lot more smaller coins that were much more needed. So LBJ killed the Peacedollar by Presidential order. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
I read an interesting article years ago by an Engineer who was a coin collector. He looked at the fact that the Mint claimed that all the silver that had been authorized/supplied for the 1964-D Silver dollar, before production, was TO THE OUNCE what was reclaimed after melting. As any Engineer knows you are going to have material loss through all the processes used in modern manufacturing. There is no way you can put in one ounce of raw material and get one ounce at the other end. Even if the loss is minor when you multiply that by the numbers minted it all ads up. If those numbers are accurate from the mint they somehow managed to reclaim not only all the 1964-D Peace dollars but several hundred, to several thousands, of other silver dollars. Edited by jmkendall
03/29/2014 2:49 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:If those numbers are accurate from the mint they somehow managed to reclaim not only all the 1964-D Peace dollars but several hundred, to several thousands, of other silver dollars. Or someone else just threw in silver like with the double eagles. Its impossible to verify from ounces alone. Any time something like that was allowed to walk out the door before asking for it back you can bet that somewhere someone has one that will never see the light of day or tell anyone else about so its not taken. |
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Moderator
 United States
189648 Posts |
Quote:Give me a 1970 Peace dollar over a 64 any day! Yes!  Quote:
Or someone else just threw in silver like with the double eagles. Its impossible to verify from ounces alone. Agreed. There is no way that they were all destroyed. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1531 Posts |
If I was in possession of a 1964 Peace dollar, yes... I would let PCGS pay me $10,000 to see it. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9794 Posts |
I was in the shop in London (Knightsbridge coins) that Mr. Fenton had the 1933 Double Eagle in at the time it was sitting in his safe, of course I had no idea it was there, but several months later he was arrested in NY and the story broke. So one never knows just what some dealer might have stashed away in a safe in the back. Never knew about the 1970 Peace dollar before, that is news to me, thanks for bringing it up! One of the reasons I love CCF and the community here, I'm always learning, and trying to teach or impart some of my learned wisdom. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3453 Posts |
Quote:
I wonder if there's a silent agreement amongst dealers when it comes to illegal coins. It would be the same agreement that is in the world of art when ill-gotten pieces trade hands. I have no evidence, other than my observance of the love of precious items, but I believe there are pieces out there. If I had one, I would not make it public for any amount of money. I do not think for one second that the government would not hunt me down to get it back. Federal subpoenas are scarey things and I have a big picture of PCGS not turning over my information. The hypocrisy of the government going after some coins but not others drives me crazy. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
I've been in Numismatics for almost 50 years. My Grandfather had one of the finest collections of US coins in the World, and yet is unknown to the Community as a whole. He moved in that circle of Collectors who prized their privacy more than their ego's. As a young boy and man I traveled with him. He owned a Casino in Carson City Nevada and he always had trade bait. I traveled with him all over the Country and viewed collections that were breath taking; and will not see the light of day until some heir disposes of it. You're right there is a parallel market out there. Not necessarily trading on grey area coins. Rather a market that trades on it's anonymity. And that's all I'll say on the matter. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
If you want to read the best information on the story behind the 1964 Peace dollar get the Whitman RedBook of Peace dollar by Roger Burdette. It is very well researched. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5211 Posts |
@jmkendall
It's the new money vs old money
New money feels the need to buy a flashy car and big house and post all over the internet bragging about what they've got.
Old money (or even just people who have common sense) have or build wealth and don't feel the need to tell or show off to everyone they meet on the street.
I think I was 17 years old in high school when I realized that after growing up in the hood with nothing that I did not need to spend the money I earned from my 2 paper routes and part time job buying fancy clothes and jewelry trying to impress anyone.
I drive $100 cars (now that scrap is up they are now $1000 cars) and 3 out of 4 of my houses are paid off.
Edited by jack jeckel
04/01/2014 9:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2215 Posts |
Quote:
It's the new money vs old money
New money feels the need to buy a flashy car and big house and post all over the internet bragging about what they've got.
Old money (or even just people who have common sense) have or build wealth and don't feel the need to tell or show off to everyone they meet on the street.
I think I was 17 years old in high school when I realized that after growing up in the hood with nothing that I did not need to spend the money I earned from my 2 paper routes and part time job buying fancy clothes and jewelry trying to impress anyone.
I drive $100 cars (now that scrap is up they are now $1000 cars) and 3 out of 4 of my houses are paid off. Wise words from my type of guy! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2215 Posts |
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Replies: 21 / Views: 3,333 |
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Posted 03/29/2014 08:10 am
