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 Replies: 39 / Views: 3,992 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
The last photo to me changes my opinion to AT, and not natural, or chemically treated and heated possibly. The spot of toning on the cheek isn't right, though contact with highly sulfurous paper could cause that, the blue color just looks unlike anything I've seen before, when mixed with the other colors. PCGS Secure holder gets the coin put into their sniffer test machine, that actually analyzes the coin for certain known chemical substances. An article dealing with their sniffer technology: http://www.pcgs.com/News/Pcgs-Coin-...ctored-Coins"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440Edited by westcoin
06/27/2014 03:03 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1531 Posts |
Just doesn't have "the look" that naturally monster-toned morgans have. 1000 Posts  Edited by Cruisinfusion
06/27/2014 12:19 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1584 Posts |
Quote:
PCGS Secure holder gets the coin put into their sniffer test machine, that actually analyzes the coin for certain known chemical substances.
westcoin, I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for the info. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Also coins in TPG slabs can and are AT after the slabbing, the holders are not air tight by any means. Coin World published a great 2 part article on it in the early 2000's as I recall, wish I saved the article. The coins were placed in various zip-lock baggies and fumigated with various chemical compounds, some which drastically altered the coins appearance - some good looking, others not so good looking. The story that goes with the coin as far as one can believe it, along with an old manila sulfur coin envelope isn't out of line to produce colors like this over time. Is a coin really AT if toned this way? All that happened is a more vigorous exposure to known metal changing vapors, and lots of time. Some say yes, others are on the side of natural. Either way it's not a bad looking or overtly blatant AT coin at all, would be interesting to see what PCGS say on a secure submission. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
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At least I will know for sure. No, you won't. You'll only know what they think, and as I mentioned they err on the side of caution. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8137 Posts |
Well if you do decide to send it in, be sure to let us know what it comes back. I am 99% sure that that color is not natural.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Quote:
No, you won't. You'll only know what they think, and as I mentioned they err on the side of caution. I agree with SsuperDdave, unfortunately PCGS would err on the side of caution by labeling this one details with a 91 code (Altered color or Questionable color). THey can't guarantee it, and nobody can really. The cost would out weigh the value in the long run for that type of grading 98% of the time, and those aren't betting odds in favor of the coin passing into a good salable holder. You'd be looking at a $25.00 grading fee for secure at economy (slow boat) plus membership costs, and shipping + insurance. Probably end up spending around $55+ on this coin minimum. Only the owner can decide if it's worth the gamble. As to the downside as SD and I both agree it will most likely be marked as AT making the coin worth 40-60% of market value in a holder like that. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Valued Member
United States
93 Posts |
Plus there will be a photo record of that coin being in a details slab.
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Pillar of the Community
968 Posts |
Honestly, if you asked a dealer to piggyback this coin for you, they'd probably refuse if they're sending anything else toned. One obviously AT a coin might get a whole submission tossed as AT if there are coins with similar colors, even with natural progressions, which your coin doesn't have.
TLDR; Good luck getting anybody to piggyback that coin for you, you'll have to pony up for a membership and whatnot on your own.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1584 Posts |
Jmb78blue, you ask in your original post "what it might grade" Are you looking for the opinion of a TPG? I agree this coin would most likely get a details grade from the TPGs. I wouldn't submit it to any of them. Who cares what the TPGs might have to say about this coin? Their hands are tied. Smart buyers/collectors ignore the assigned TPG grade and focus only on the coin anyway. If you plan to keep it, enjoy it. It's a great looking coin with an interesting history. If you plan to sell it, you'd have no problem getting a good price for it. Thanks for posting it here. Edited by noD
06/30/2014 09:15 am
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Pillar of the Community
968 Posts |
Quote:Jmb78blue, you ask in your original post "what it might grade" Are you looking for the opinion of a TPG? I agree this coin would most likely get a details grade from the TPGs. I wouldn't submit it to any of them. Who cares what the TPGs might have to say about this coin? Their hands are tied. Smart buyers/collectors ignore the assigned TPG grade and focus only on the coin anyway. If you plan to keep it, enjoy it. It's a great looking coin with an interesting history. If you plan to sell it, you'd have no problem getting a good price for it. Thanks for posting it here. I mean no offense by this, but attitudes like yours are the reason we have individuals blatantly AT'ing and destroying coins that are otherwise nice, original specimens. If you want to continue to support that crap, by all means, go ahead. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1584 Posts |
chasingtailbar, you mean no offense? Attitudes like mine are causing people to AT? Really?  Edited by noD
06/30/2014 2:53 pm
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Pillar of the Community
968 Posts |
If the market as a whole raises their standards, the AT'ers will just be wasting their money and time, and will stop. The people who say "who cares if it's AT or not" and buy those kind of coins are the reason why AT'ing is popular.
I dip every AT'ed coin that I buy, and before you say it, I only pay a buck or two over melt for them.
Edited by chasingtailbar
06/30/2014 3:27 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1584 Posts |
I never said I don't care if a coin is AT or not. Please don't twist my words. TPGs err on the side of caution. This is exactly what they should do. Only the OP knows the history of this coin. I have no reason to doubt the veracity of the story. You seem 100% sure the posted coin is AT. I am not and would never claim to know 100%. The TPGs must make a call when a coin is submitted. This coin would most get the QC stain. Why send it to be rejected by a TPG? I enjoy collecting coins. I am not anti TPG, but TPGs are not and I hope will never be the be-all and end-all. |
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Pillar of the Community
968 Posts |
It's science, once you understand the science behind natural toning, you'll realize that toning patterns and progression on the posted dollar are simply not possible without exposure to chemicals and/or substances that greatly accelerate the toning process.
Simply said, there is no way the OP's coin toned from being in a kraft envelope for 30 years. I'd bet a thousand dollars on that, no problem.
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Posted 06/27/2014 12:18 pm
