| Author |
 Replies: 19 / Views: 3,011 |
Page 2 of 2
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Concerning the 1854 ONE PENNY:
This is Doctor Courteau variety 258, having a rarity factor of 6 (on a scale of 1-10).
Dr. Courteau initiates the attribution process by identifying the grouping of Anchor Rope
Dots in the section of the Anchor Rope betwixt the upper section of the Blade of the Sword
and the Fledging. This section is found having two large dots, defective dots, three dots,
four dots, three dots (the left dot being weak, etc.
This token is of the defective dot varieties which encompasses two varieties, 258 and 259.
The obverse of Variety 258: "The lower part of drapery (mantle) above the man's right hand
is lacking (incomplete). The bridle to the horse shows only the right rein. The left-side
of the stand of the figure 4 is opposite the space between teeth (denticles) around border."
Whereas, variety 259 "The drapery (mantle) to the left of right arm is fully struck, four
lines below same arm (the design elements below the man's armpit), Double rein to horse's
bridle. Speck between ground and figure 4. Perfect and broken dies, cracks through last
A and to point of ground).
AU 55.
Areas of concern are the diagonal strap across the Man's torso. MS specimens should shew a
complete line of demarcation betwixt the strap and the mans's chest. On the reverse, study
the Anchor Rope Dots atop the lower section of the Anchor Shaft. Slight rub shews to the dots.
doug
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Concerning the 1850 ONE HALF PENNY:
This is Dr. Courteau variety 43, having a rarity factor of 3 (on a scale of 1-10).
Dr. Courteau identifies 75 different varieties of this series. Dr. Courteau commences
the attribution process by examining the stand of the T and N in TOKEN.
1). The stands of the T and N are weakly struck (varieties 1-26).
2). The stand of the T is weak, the left-side of the stand of the N is weak, the right-side is fully struck (varieties 27-45).
3). The stand of the T is weak, the stand of the N is fully struck (varieties 46-56).
4). The stand of the T is double-cut, the stand of the N is fully struck (varieties 57-63).
5). The stands of the T and N are complete (varieties 64-75).
The token in the photo is of the second grouping.
Within this grouping varieties 41-45 have a defective E in PENNY (the base is broken).
Variety 43 is identified as: "Letter K is defective, not left top ceriphs to R of UPPER,
and to ND of CANADA, last A right stand hardly shows."
XF 40
doug
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
9167 Posts |
Good info Doug, I didn't know there was that much difference, now to check mine out.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 1844 Posts |
Thanks Doug, what would you place the value at for these 2 tokens.. I only have the 2005 Edition of Charlton tokens so I am loss for pricing .. I want to keep it fair when I list them
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
At present, only a few dedicated collectors are interested in Courteau varieties.
In bygone years, Courteau varieties were much more popular (before the advent of
decimal coinage). Hopefully this trend will level out and Courteau varieties will
gain a following. For now, many merely seek tokens for type ensamples. Education is
most important and I trust such posting may generate interest in this field.
There are a handful of serious collectors of this discipline, and collectively there
is still a small number of varieties absent in all collections. Seeing the tokens of the
photos are not rare, I suspect the 1854 to sell for 40-50 dollars on E-bay and perhaps 20
for the 1850. Certified MS specimens of either hoover in the area of 125 - 150 dollars.
doug
|
|
Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts |
Thanks Doug , much appreciated... Would you mind if I included your explanation of those tokens in my listing when I get around to it... This way it will be accurate and of course I will mention where this expert info came from...
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
No problem
Please do.
p.s. At times Courteau varieties are difficult to attribute from photos
and in such cases I will ask for additional details. I am not ashamed to
simply state I do not know. But when I make an attribution, you can take
it to the bank.
doug
|
|
Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts |
Thanks Doug, and your expertise I trust.. Considering we had had quite a few deals in the past...
Sid
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
Doug, again your knowledge of the Tokens is nothing short of awesome! MM
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Was the 1854 upper Canada penny ever struck on other metals?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
I have never heard of or seen this series in other metals,
but my knowledge is limited. I can not attest that they do not exist.
doug
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
Quote:
Was the 1854 upper Canada penny ever struck on other metals? silver and gold coins with the same "dragon slayer" design were issued through out the United Kingdom, but not as Canadian pennies. |
|
Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
Doug, it has been a long time since we shared a beer at a coin show (Torex at the Hilton Airport, where you cherry-picked that 1894 fat 4 large cent in ICCS MS-65 Red)... will we see you at a Coin Expo someday?
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
09/19/2014 9:47 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Currently the 1894 is on loan to Dr. Haxby. I suspect it is the finest fat 4 known.
At the same auction I also picked up a UC-1, currently listed under a different heading
on page 262 in Charlton's 8th edition of Canadian Colonial Tokens.
Living in south (far south) Florida hinders travels to Canada. And I almost did not make
the Torex I did attend. I was on vacation visiting my brother in northwest Pennsylvania
and mentioned I was planning on attending the Torex in eight days. He asked if I had a
pass-port. I never had one. Years ago all that was needed was a drivers license. He said
since 9-11 things have changed. I went to the post office that afternoon and they said I
needed a copy of my birth certificate. Great, it is locked up in a safety deposit box in
Florida. I had to drive two hours to Erie to get a duplicate. I return to the post office
the next day and complete the paperwork and pay the fees. They said it would take 6 weeks.
I need it in 6 days. They gave me the phone number of a company in DC that for an additional
fee (150.00) could walk the paper work through, but could not guarantee delivery on time.
The afternoon prior to the Torex, the passport arrived. Early the morning of the Torex I drove
my HT2 Hummer to Canada.
I would like to return, but current financial restraint seem to interfere. Too much money is
currently being spent on Canadian Coins and Tokens. I recently obtained an NGC Proof 1852 ONE
PENNY St. George token.
doug
|
|
Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
Maybe you could carpool, and pick up Gene on your way north.... would be nice to see the old gang together again...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
|
|
Page 2 of 2
|
Replies: 19 / Views: 3,011 |
Page 2 of 2
|
First Page
Posted 09/17/2014 09:07 am
