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 Replies: 18 / Views: 6,566 |
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Valued Member
440 Posts |
Can't wait to see the results.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4038 Posts |
These big enlarging lenses tend to have proprietary mounts and are tough to adapt, but as you found they have standard filter rings! Silly to have to resort to reverse adapters but that is what you must do with many of the exotic lenses. You are going to have more working distance on the SK lens than the Canon Macro since the Canon shortens FL for higher mags. Hope your copy stand is tall! I have seen superb results from 135mm-150mm enlarging lenses but I don't know of anyone intrepid enough to go for such long ones. They were VERY expensive when new and generally optimized for low magnification ratios, so I expect good results. Not that many folks worked with large formats. I too will be patiently waiting your report...Ray
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
 2087 Posts |
The Reversing ring is coming from Graz so I expect that I will have it by thursday( assuming its posted monday). What rmpsrmps has said is a little reassuring. My copy stand has a full metre of camera movement so as long as the minimum focusing distance is less than a metre I'll be happy. ( I am half expecting the bellows may be needed to reduced the focal distance). I am not so worried about magnification. My aim is to add to my tool box a lens that would give me working space. From the little I know if I had wanted anything greater than 1-1 magnification this lens would be the completely wrong direction to go.
Hopefully next weekend we'll know if this is a good 1-2( this is what I am anticipating) or 1-1 option( would be a pleasant surprise)
Edited by austrokiwi
10/11/2014 06:59 am
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
1:1 on an a7R will give you a 2500px image of a Gold Dollar (the smallest US coin) or significant detailing on a Thaler-sized coin. That's silly. Who needs "magnification?"  |
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
I know the old hands Have a pretty good idea what this lens looks like.....but for others ignorant, like myself, heres two comparison shots. On the left is a toy like "normal" enlarger lens, in the middle a Minolta MD 100mm F4 full frame lens. On the right is the SK 210 F5.6 I know it doesn't look too different from the 100 mm until you see the second shot ( note I have now cleaned the front optic of the 100 mm) the weight difference is even more telling ( The SK is much heavier than the 100mm) When I purchased the SK the photos didn't really give any perspective. I had assumed it was only slightly bigger than a standard enlarger lens.   Edited by austrokiwi
10/12/2014 07:30 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
In the post above you say "I am half expecting the bellows may be needed to reduced the focal distance". It sounds like you are planning to mount the lens directly to camera? This won't work, unfortunately. The long focal length of this lens will require significant extension from the camera using bellows, extension tubes, etc. For infinity focus, you will need total extension equal to the focal length. You'll get some of that from the camera, for instance on your Canon the sensor is recessed about 44mm into the camera body, so you have an immediate 44mm extension. But you need an additional 166mm in order to get to infinity focus. You'll need to add that extension between camera and lens. Now, that extension will only get you to infinity focus, but you will of course want to focus closer. To get all the way to 1:1, you need double the focal length of total extension, so total of 420mm. The magnification formula is:
Magnification = (Total Extension - Focal Length) / Focal Length or M=(TE-FL)/FL
Note for infinity focus, M = 0
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
Perhaps it was just poor wording..... the lens is going onto the bellows I never planned to put it directly on the camera. I did expect I would be able to use it on the bellows with minimum extension. but not zero extension
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
An update. the reversing ring arrived yesterday. As I was taught in tewts every plan is perfect until contact with the enemy; meaning the reversing ring was a great idea but in reality it was a very very close miss. Either I read the calipers wrong or the reversing ring just doesn't have enough reach to engage with the thread ( I was trying to attach it to the female thread that is used to lock the rear lens group in place.
The short story now is that I have 14 working days from today to wait before I can try the lens out.
The long story, I well know that there is a simple solution however my lack of experience means I would have to spend 3-4 times the actual cost of the solution in the process of finding it out. I had two other lenses that had minor issues( a Minolta MD 135mm F2 with damaged filter thread, and a 28mm wide angle that was missing two screws from the mount) So I paid a visit to an "old-school" Lens repair shop here in Vienna. the 28mm got a disdainful look. The 135mm received the respect it deserved. When I pulled the SK 210 and my bellows out of the bag I was relieved by the technicians response.....fascination and intrigue. When I told what I wanted done and why I got a positive response and was told it was "Eine Gute Idee" ( probably spelt wrong). He actually mucked round with some calipers checked the extension distance on the bellows and clearly decided the reversing ring needed to be mounted a specific distance from the rear element of the SK. So now I just have to sit back and wait!
Edited by austrokiwi
10/15/2014 04:54 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
Better to wait and get it right.
Earlier this year I picked up a 150mm APO-Nikkor process lens. I didn't know that Nikon had made these in such short focal length, so I snapped it up. The mounting threads are all proprietary to certain copy systems, but it turned out that one end had a flat area where a T-mount adapter would seat nicely. I've done some testing on it but not a complete evaluation. Waiting for some time to spare. I can't do much with it on my normal stand so will need to break out a tall copy stand to even test it. Perhaps once you start testing the 210 I'll be inspired...
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
Ok I got the lens back with the new adapter. It looks great. However I can now answer the question is this lens a step too far? Answer it sure is. With 240mm of total extension it looks like the minimum focusing distance is around 1.5 metres and at a guess 1:2 magnification. Its half a metre more than my copy stand can deal with. With a quick play it appears the lens has phenomenal sharpness. I suspect it is also brilliant on distortion. For insects in the field it would be brilliant as it is. I even have infinity focus! I will get one set of extension tubes ( now out of sheer stubbornness on my part) To see if I can get it to actually work on my copy stand! Any more than one set of extension tubes would add too much vibration I suspect.
Edit: Wrong!!
After getting back from walking the dog I tried My A65 with extension tubes with the lens.....WOW!!!
Edited by austrokiwi
11/20/2014 10:26 am
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
Heres a test shot: Though the lens performs well The focusing distance is just too large to be manageable. I think the 150mm Version would probably be ideal:  |
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
I have ignored this lens since trying it out with extension tubes plus bellows. This morning I was mucking around and tried it again. The main reason I tried again was I had found more information about the lens. It was designed to have great magnification with no distortion. Every thing I read about the lens tells me it should when set up well produce truly impressive results. The bellows on its own just does not have enough reach. So this morning Bellows plus 2 sets of extension rings an I get this shot on my APS c Sony A 65. The coin is 16-17mm in diameter. The sony's sensor is 23.5 x 15.6 mm, So with the current set up I am getting just under 1-1 magnification. Ignore the lighting in this shot( there is one area of nasty glare), instead look at the surface detail of the coin and its background. I took the shot with the electronic front curtain shutter on. Total extension from the rear of the lens to the camera sensor is 360mm. Distance from front of lense to the coin was 420mm ( 300mm = 1 foot). A couple of weeks ago this shot wouldn't have been possible as my copy stand set up would not have been steady enough I just added a Novoflex clamp for mounting the focusing rail. Previously I had a ball head that just wasn't stable enough) The photo was loaded straight to photobucket without any editing.  I had to use the sony A 65 because the second set of extention rings I had were sony Alpha mount. A set of e-mount rings is on the way when I get them I will try again. But I suspect the lack of an EFCS may see less impressive results than this one. As was said at the beginning of this thread its a little like shooting squirrels with a cannon..........But the result is IMHO phenomenal For those who want to see the set up here it is. To get an idea of what this lens can do look at the size of the coin that was photographed in relation to the copy stand base board!!  NO matter how ungainly it looks remember its only cost me about €90.00 all up. Much cheaper than the €170.00 cost of the lens in this thread; https://goccf.com/t/191770 Edited by austrokiwi
12/13/2014 05:00 am
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
Taking the dog for a walk is a great way of finding solutions to problems. Particularly when your not even thinking about them. I realised I had every thing I needed to get the necessary extension to try the full frame camera with this lens. Two bellows connected by extension rings. When I got home I gave it a try. Total extension ended up being 440mm, focus distance was 320 mm ( just over 1 foot)> Now this is starting to border on the ridiculous but I am getting a little more than 1-1 magnification. Some vignetting is creeping in on the corners but with round subjects who cares? Here is the same coin but on the full frame sensor:  And F stop.....with this lens and set up who needs to worry? I have no idea what the real F stop value is.....it is very slow but the depth of field is huge!! I think an ant could be captured with out stacking! I should have tried this double bellows approach before: Here is a 41 diameter coin. The focusing distance was close to 900mm( I didn't measure this time). I also sorted out my lights..instead of pointing them at the coins I switched all four on and pointed them at the ceiling so the light is bounced down to the coin. Again unedited ( the coin was raised above the base board)  Edited by austrokiwi
12/13/2014 10:00 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
 rmpsrmps I couldn't fit that in the house. Well I could but she who must be obeyed would have other ideas!! I spent some more time testing it by photographing Silver dollar sized coins. then editing the results as I would normally do. The long focus distance really makes lighting a breeze. I am now getting some of the most effective lighting out of the simplest setup. however I have to stand to see the Camera screen and operating the Stackshot control becomes a pain. I had been putting off getting the tethering software( Phase 1 pro) for my Sony A7r. I think in the New year I will purchase it. The first test shot was a gold coin ( gold is often a good test). By the way all the photos have been scaled down to 160mm by 160mm instead of the standard output of 340mm by 340mm.  the Next test is of a diabolical to photograph reverse of a 1745 MTT. the toning and cabinet rubbing drive me nuts. This is a reasonable rendition:  Then there is this toned 1888 medal, This has to be the most accurate capture of all the colours( and scratches which I had not noticed before) I have managed ever.  Silver and gold are great but of course there is copper. Heres the copper trial strike of the above medal:  |
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Posted 10/11/2014 12:39 am
