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Odd Date Digits

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Valued Member
Canada
286 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2014  10:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john517 to your friends list
That is not PMD IMO. The rim is a Cud error so the date is probably a die crack or full on broken die. Look at the 3 it wasn't struck properly on the bottom half.
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Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2014  01:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list
The digits are PMD, most likely coin rolling damage or else some well placed hit. I'm not sure about the rims but my feeling is that is not a Cud.
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United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2014  01:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list
Right maple leaf has the same thing at the same radius as the date. Can we get a close up of that? Odd how the 3 has metal across the bottom loop.
Valued Member
Canada
286 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2014  01:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john517 to your friends list
I would like to know if that bar in the 3 is straight through the field. If it is I can see no way for this to be PMD. Is there a gap in the metal under that bar? The damage follows a straight line which to me would say its a die break. @SlurExe97 Can you explain how you would get damage like that with coin roll?
Valued Member
Canada
180 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2014  06:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bellmaker to your friends list
The bar across the 3 looks firmly fixed to me, no gap.

Odd-Date-Digits

Odd-Date-Digits
Valued Member
Canada
286 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2014  08:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john517 to your friends list
Then I can't see any way that this could be PMD.
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Canada
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 Posted 11/05/2014  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list
This is not a die break. A die break will make raised lines and lumps, not some sunken missing metal.

How is this not PMD? Coin Rolling Machine Damage. A lot of the threads here are about coins with circular damage with flattened and displaced metal. Do a search for it and you will see what I mean.
Valued Member
Canada
286 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2014  5:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john517 to your friends list
I know exactly what coin roll damage looks like and I am not seeing it here. The raised metal on the rim is very typical of a Cud error which is a die break at the rim of a coin. That bar through the 3 is according to OP straight though the field I can not see any way that coin roll could cause this damage. Its all about that 3 for me, how did that happen? Could it be a lamination error?
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Canada
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 Posted 11/05/2014  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list
The 3 is NOT a die break. It is a well-placed hit of some sort, hard enough to displace the metal. A coin roller machine can do that, sometimes without scratching the fields at all. There are a lot of pics of the same kind of damage posted in the US section.
Look at these threads:
https://goccf.com/t/173630#1599846 Last picture. See how "trust" is smashed and the metal is now lying in a different than original place?
https://goccf.com/t/148187&SearchTe...chine,damage Coin rolling damage but no damage to fields.
There are many more examples in the US modern varieties section. Go search for " Rolling Machine Damage" and you will see.

That is not a Cud. Look at the first pic again. The area under the rim of 9 is flattened, and the area under the 5 is bent. Well-placed hits.

Either way, both are PMD.
Valued Member
Canada
286 Posts
 Posted 11/06/2014  03:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john517 to your friends list
So the coin rolling damage displaced the metal from the 3 then firmly affixed the metal back to the coin, I just can't see that happening.
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Canada
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 Posted 11/06/2014  03:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list
john517 - I really am not in the mood to for arguing now, I'm exhausted from studying late the whole week and I still have a bloody report to finish while fighting sleep for the past few hours. I'll just say this for now: I bet you didn't even check out my first link or looked at more examples if you still don't think this is coin rolling damage.
Valued Member
Canada
180 Posts
 Posted 11/06/2014  06:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bellmaker to your friends list
There is an imperfection in the edge of the coin below the 9, but did not view this as the lone cause for the extra metal below the 9.

There is a small edge ding/scrape below the 5, but did not view this as being related to the digits.

Odd-Date-Digits

Odd-Date-Digits

Odd-Date-Digits

Odd-Date-Digits

Odd-Date-Digits
Valued Member
Canada
286 Posts
 Posted 11/06/2014  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john517 to your friends list
@SlurExe97 I am not arguing, I am rebutting. I am sorry if it is stressing you out that was not my intention. Upon seeing the coin edge I now firmly believe that what I was seeing as a Cud error is actually PMD. I did look at the posts you quoted, and although there are similarities between the coins I was not convinced that this was coin roll damage. I do not know how the damage on the 3 came to be but I will concede that it was mechanical damage that most likely did not happen at the mint and is therefore PMD. The edges were really the domino in my theory once I saw them everything else just fell apart. This is why pictures just are not an effective way to judge a coin, you must have it in hand.
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Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2014  12:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list
john517, I'm sorry if my last post offended you, I can remove it if you like. I was really tired and I do get aggressive when I am tired (not that annoying me when I'm not tired is a good idea either...)
Valued Member
Canada
180 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2014  06:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bellmaker to your friends list
Thank you for the reasoning.

Good point made about coin in hand vs pictures.

Always looked at the imperfection/hole in the edge below the 9, as an impurity/bubble in the blank and something stuck to the collar die, punched through.

Always looked at the 3 & 5 (leaf tip) as a possible struck thru.

Going to the toy-shop (coin store) today, will take it along and if they are not too busy, I will ask what they think.
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